Teach me something about Hero-fold

I have no idea how to fold a set for example.

- If I play against fish, he can have something better only by accident, so most of the time I get paid off.
- Against reg - might be bluff, they like to do that.

I assume, Hero-fold doesn't apply in GTO. Must be something very specific and individual.

killing_random said:

I have no idea how to fold a set for example.

- If I play against fish, he can have something better only by accident, so most of the time I get paid off.
- Against reg - might be bluff, they like to do that.

I assume, Hero-fold doesn't apply in GTO. Must be something very specific and individual.

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hero folding can occur in may different situations,
1 if the board is to wet
2 the opponents betting patterns drastically changes
3 the bubble
4 if dont have the absolute nuts

Hero folds greatly come down to hand-reading ability. What makes this a Hero Fold is the fact that the math says to call (sometimes says this by a lot due to amazing pot odds etc.), but it was correct in this case to fold. Same concept with Hero Calls when the math overwhelmingly says to fold.

Hand reading is a process that takes a lot of skill because of the many factors in play - math as well as psychological. When should you Hero Fold? Whenever you know you are probably beat - even if you hold a great hand. We must ask ourselves (at every juncture in the hand, not just at the decision) what range of hands our opponent would reasonably play this way...sometimes we have to Hero Fold when it looks very likely that the only hands they could continue with to this spot beat us.

Hand reading and psychology tell-spotting etc. is tough enough to do AND your Hero Fold means that you are willing to fold your hand. It is tough to not get attached to your pocket Aces or a Set. Most of the time we should be continuing with these strong hands, but sometimes Hero Folds can save us a lot in spots others would frequently fall into.

I think alot of key point have already been illustrated - but what a hero fold means is that we are laying down a very strong hand and making the disciplined play.

Folding a set is never easy and it doesn't happen often...that said, if you flop a set of 9s on a J97 flop and the turn is an 8, and river is a T...then we have to consider folding in situations like this. Its just a terrible runout for our hand and we essentially turn what was a very strong hand into a pure bluff catcher. Part of hand ranging has your brain go into the process of - would my opponent really bet 2 pair on this board? Would my opponent bet 66s on this runout? Are they betting a worse set, like 77s? In the lower stakes you will find villans simply don't bluff too often on the river- while it does happen, it is nowhere near the frequency on which it should be - so I tend to give river bets alot of credit in games of $16.50 and under.

Anyhow, hero folding is just another term for making a good disciplined fold when the situation warrents such an action. My example is pretty basic but nonetheless, you get an idea of the thought process facing such a situation and you have to realize that sometimes the board is just going to run out the absolute worse scenario possible for you and there's nothing you can do - just another form of a cooler.

If you you have JJ, and somebody did raise, and another person 3BB, and another person did ALL IN, and if you didn't have a good position, and you've feel you need to fold, then it's better to fold.
If you have JJ, and somebody did raise, and another person 3BB, and another person 4BB, and someone is going ALL-IN, then its better to FOLD your hand.
May I will tell you something it's depends of situations, and it's depends from what position you have, and of your feelings if it's good, then you can make a HERO fold very easy.

Nah, folding a pair preflop in the middle of the tournament is easy for me as long as I'm not feeling exploited.

killing_random said:

I have no idea how to fold a set for example.

- If I play against fish, he can have something better only by accident, so most of the time I get paid off.
- Against reg - might be bluff, they like to do that.

I assume, Hero-fold doesn't apply in GTO. Must be something very specific and individual.

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Hey there Killing_Random!

This is a great question and one that definitely requires an acute awareness of your opponents and their play style. As you mention in your post to make a big fold requires a very specific situation (and often not very good odds) to be able to justify folding.

There are some instances where given the line your opponent takes there is just so little chance it's a bluff (like <1%) and knowing the type of opponent there are some players who just aren't capable of making a play in a certain spot.

This was one of the longest videos I did a Q+A presentation for, but I think it will help


It will help you pay attention to the right things which give you the opportunity to make a great call or a big hero fold. But as you said, most of the time just going with the pot odds and clicking the call button will be the way to go.

Good luck on the tables! :joyman:

You just may be over thinking it.

killing_random said:

I have no idea how to fold a set for example.

- If I play against fish, he can have something better only by accident, so most of the time I get paid off.
- Against reg - might be bluff, they like to do that.

I assume, Hero-fold doesn't apply in GTO. Must be something very specific and individual.

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Hero folds in that sense are rare. That comes with playing an opponent a lot and knowing his tendencies and mistakes. Thats why learning Ranges and how to Understand your opponent is the helpful when taking the game serious. The cards even out in the end Poker is a people game.

To add to many good comments that have been made in this thread...

Board: Kh Td 9s 9h 2h

Your Hand: 2s 2d

Action: You bet river and your opponent raises.

Analysis:

Even though you have a full house, if he is tight-passive, he's probably almost never bluffing. The reason is that it takes a loose-tricky player to bluff-raise the river.

He's also probably almost never raising worse for value. With a flush, straight, or trips, he would usually just call.

So even though you have a very strong hand, you can still Hero-Fold against this player type based on your read.

Collin Moshman said:

To add to many good comments that have been made in this thread...

Board: Kh Td 9s 9h 2h

Your Hand: 2s 2d

Action: You bet river and your opponent raises.

Analysis:

Even though you have a full house, if he is tight-passive, he's probably almost never bluffing. The reason is that it takes a loose-tricky player to bluff-raise the river.

He's also probably almost never raising worse for value. With a flush, straight, or trips, he would usually just call.

So even though you have a very strong hand, you can still Hero-Fold against this player type based on your read.

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For me it would be 50/50. Even if if he's tight-passive, I'd never believe that he doesn't aware about side effects of his reputation and he would never exploit it.
I'd estimate both our risks and if it's look like he doesn't really care will I call or fold; is it comfortable for me to fold, then I could hero-fold.

:banghead::congrats:

killing_random said:

Ty guys for teaching me the art of Hero-Fold
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Appreciate that!​

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too bad you didn't know what the river would be

I think a term Hero Fold losing its meaning a little. Poker becomes more and more agressive. People start to understand the game more and more, and become less scared to put chips in the middle.
Also Hero Fold is a fold when you have a really decent hand. I dont think folding AA on a river with semi-disasterous board and big bet on a river would qualify as 'Hero'