THE hand to a big rake (and I threw it away)!

t1riel

t1riel

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You know how some players overestimate Ace-rags? Last night, I underestimated it. I was dealt :as4: :5s4: . Blinds were 50/100. Preflop, one player raises it to 300. Two players call. I fold thinking it wasn't worth the call. The flop came up:

:6s4: :8s4: :js4: .

Damn, I threw away the nut flush. To make matters worse, the three players were raising left and right. One had a lower flush while the other two had two pair. It was the hand that could have put me in a great position in the tournament and I threw it away! I admit it, I made a dumb mistake! But, I shall learn from my mistake. My advice: If you are dealt Ace-Rags suited and ther is a raise pre-flop, it worth at least to see the flop.
 
soadwes

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lol, gotta love folding the nuts... I do fold A rag, but if its suited, i will call even a small raise to see what i hit... I think it's worth it, in most situations anyways.
 
twizzybop

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It was only a 2X the BB raise and with A(x) suited on a small enough raise like that would have been more than enough for me to call. Always need more money or chips in this case cause when the nut flush hits. It is paid off very well.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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t1riel said:
I admit it, I made a dumb mistake!
Click to expand...

No, you played it fine. Calling raises with A-rag is generally a recipe for disaster.

If you folded 32o preflop and the flop came 333 would you still be saying you'd made a dumb mistake? You can't think the way you're thinking and play effectively - concentrate more on just making the correct plays irrespective of results.
 
soadwes

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Dorkus Malorkus said:
If you folded 32o preflop and the flop came 333 would you still be saying you'd made a dumb mistake? You can't think the way you're thinking and play effectively - concentrate more on just making the correct plays irrespective of results.
Click to expand...

That is a great point, but i think calling Ax suited isn't a terrible play...
 
titans4ever

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You made the right play. Dorkus hit it squarely on the head. What if? What if? No! You will be throwing money away more times than not.

What flop could you really want with playing that hand? 234? More likely all you are hoping for is the flush draw and that only happens about 11% of the time. You needed pot odds of 9:1 to make that call. If an A hits on the flop you know you are in serious kicker trouble. Hitting two pair and still have a hard time betting wondering if they have a better two pair.
 
Jesus Lederer

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I agree with Dorkus and gf, you don´t have to be results-oriented. You have to know that every hand has chances of winning, but that´s not a good reason to play a hand with low chances of winning, specially if there is a raise before. Calling a raise with A-rag generally isn´t a good move.
You are playing a tournament, so there are some situations where it could be a good move to call (and of course to open a raise with big blinds and good position) with that kind of hand. Tournament situations are very special, so as soadwes said calling with A-rag may not be a terrible play, but just under special circumstances. Generally speaking is a bad play. You´ll get in trouble and lose money more often than you win by making such calls. Just don´t let the results to affect your mind because if you don´t focus on the moment and stay cool, that situations can have the same effects as a bad beat.
I have one question to make you t1riel (please answer with the truth): do you easily go on tilt after a bad beat?
If you do, in my opinion the first step to prevent that is learning to stop being results-oriented in those kinds of situations, where you fold a hand that is right to fold but then you realize that you would have hit the nuts. You have to focus on the strategies you know that are good.
t1riel said:
I fold thinking it wasn't worth the call
Click to expand...
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t1riel said:
My advice: If you are dealt Ace-Rags suited and ther is a raise pre-flop, it worth at least to see the flop.
Click to expand...
...
That change of mind is just based on the results. Imagine that you called and the flop came AK5. Someone bet, you raised all in and he called. He showed AK and you´re out of the tourney. What would you think? Of course you would think that you made a mistake by overstimating your A-rag.
Try to evaluate your strategies when they are consistently showing a flaw in your game, but not change them based on one hand. Stop letting those situations to affect your normal way of thinking.

p.s: To stop thinking "what if?" and learn to focus on the game, i recommend reading the book "Zen in the Art of Archery". Just 60 pages but very useful.
 
t1riel

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Jesus Lederer said:
I agree with Dorkus and gf, you don´t have to be results-oriented. You have to know that every hand has chances of winning, but that´s not a good reason to play a hand with low chances of winning, specially if there is a raise before. Calling a raise with A-rag generally isn´t a good move.
You are playing a tournament, so there are some situations where it could be a good move to call (and of course to open a raise with big blinds and good position) with that kind of hand. Tournament situations are very special, so as soadwes said calling with A-rag may not be a terrible play, but just under special circumstances. Generally speaking is a bad play. You´ll get in trouble and lose money more often than you win by making such calls. Just don´t let the results to affect your mind because if you don´t focus on the moment and stay cool, that situations can have the same effects as a bad beat.
I have one question to make you t1riel (please answer with the truth): do you easily go on tilt after a bad beat?
If you do, in my opinion the first step to prevent that is learning to stop being results-oriented in those kinds of situations, where you fold a hand that is right to fold but then you realize that you would have hit the nuts. You have to focus on the strategies you know that are good.

...

...
That change of mind is just based on the results. Imagine that you called and the flop came AK5. Someone bet, you raised all in and he called. He showed AK and you´re out of the tourney. What would you think? Of course you would think that you made a mistake by overstimating your A-rag.
Try to evaluate your strategies when they are consistently showing a flaw in your game, but not change them based on one hand. Stop letting those situations to affect your normal way of thinking.

p.s: To stop thinking "what if?" and learn to focus on the game, i recommend reading the book "Zen in the Art of Archery". Just 60 pages but very useful.
Click to expand...

To answer your question, no, I don't easily go on tilt after a bad beat. Usually, that's the time where I have to play more tight game and build my stack again.

I honestly still think I should have seen the flop with the suited Ace-rag but after rereading my thread. I'm just venting and I thought Ilearned a valuable lesson. Now, after reading everyone's responses, I realize it wasn't a dumb move. Thanks for the insight!
 
roundcat

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I don't think that was an incorrect fold. I did the exact same thing with the same cards in a recent tourney. Player to my right raised three or four times the big blind and I folded A5 suited. And what came up on the board by the time we arrived at the river? An ace and three fives!! I was a bit crushed, of course, but didn't feel that I'd made a bad laydown. More times than not I would have had to throw it away after the flop.
 
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