Ask Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier About Sit ‘n Goes!

drtedvoodoo said:

Hi,

The only site I play on (at the moment) is Party which doesn't allow HUD's. As novice in SnG's, I'm currently only playing one table, where I can use observation & take notes to make reads on my opponents.

After watching the YouTube video of Katie playing 40 SnG's (which I find amazing) & I was wondering how an experienced player would be able to make reads on their opponents without a HUD whilst playing so many tables?

Thanks

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Mass multi-tabling is in part a decision to give up some of my individual table ROI in favor of a higher hourly rate (i.e. I make less per table than I would if I was only play a few, but I make more overall per hour as a result of playing so many more tables).

That being said, I still do find time for exploitative plays/reads. I utilize color coding/notes and whenever I'm involved in a more unusual hand I pull it to the side of my stack in order to make sure I'm devoting sufficient time to it. I pay attention to screennames and tendencies whenever possible--and have found I can still pick up on a pretty good amount

Hope this helps and thanks for your nice words!

Hi Katie,Collin!
How long does it take to be on a level so that you can make good side money from poker? I know it's from person to person but on average.

Hi,

Do you mix different types or speeds of SnG's during your sessions?

As a beginner I guess it's better for me to sick to just one type & speed for each session.

Thank you

drtedvoodoo said:

Hi,

Do you mix different types or speeds of SnG's during your sessions?

As a beginner I guess it's better for me to sick to just one type & speed for each session.

Thank you

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Yes, I play a mix of many different tournament game types at once. I'd just suggest playing whatever you're comfortably able to manage in terms of different games. If you find yourself making an error (such as playing as if you're on the bubble 4-handed in a 6-max), then it would be time to dial it back. Speed is generally easier to mix than different game types, as the blind level will always be totally visible on the table whereas the game type is in finer print and therefore easier to accidentally confuse.

Best of luck!

SillentHunterZ said:

Hi Katie,Collin!
How long does it take to be on a level so that you can make good side money from poker? I know it's from person to person but on average.

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As you point out it certainly varies from person to person, and I'd say an almost equally huge factor is the time the person has to devote to it, in addition to how serious they are about that goal. Of course what "good money" really means is another variable that is defined not only by the person but also by the cost of living where they're from.

My advice is that if you're thinking on starting to play poker only with the goal of making some money, there are many easier and low-risk ways to go about that. But if you love the game, don't have to make money from it but would prefer to, then making good side income is a great goal in the long term. I've seen people become winning players at low stakes games in relatively short amounts of time (for how to go about that, check out our new CardsChat 30 day course ) but I've also known people that it took them quite a while or have yet to get to that point at all.

It really is in how hard you're willing to work, how much effort you put into this goal, and to a much lesser extent, any natural abilities. Hope this helps

Good morning Collin Moshman I have been a poker player for ten years I have never been profitable whenever I get the money I only get pennies and I often feel like I just play to chase after crumbs: with your poker experience what do I need to do for myself become a very profitable poker player.

Katie Dozier said:

As you point out it certainly varies from person to person, and I'd say an almost equally huge factor is the time the person has to devote to it, in addition to how serious they are about that goal. Of course what "good money" really means is another variable that is defined not only by the person but also by the cost of living where they're from.

My advice is that if you're thinking on starting to play poker only with the goal of making some money, there are many easier and low-risk ways to go about that. But if you love the game, don't have to make money from it but would prefer to, then making good side income is a great goal in the long term. I've seen people become winning players at low stakes games in relatively short amounts of time (for how to go about that, check out our new CardsChat 30 day course ) but I've also known people that it took them quite a while or have yet to get to that point at all.

It really is in how hard you're willing to work, how much effort you put into this goal, and to a much lesser extent, any natural abilities. Hope this helps

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I am thinking of playing poker on serious basis, I just asked about the side money as I want for beginning to support my poker passion with that side money. At the moment I am putting around 30hr per week on playing and 7-10 on reading strategies and books. Atm I am in vacation at home and I am limited with time, once I get back on work I can put around 50+ per week on playing and 10-20 on studying ( as I am apart o f my family and I have free weekends).
Anyway, thanks for the reply.

pablo lima said:

Good morning Collin Moshman I have been a poker player for ten years I have never been profitable whenever I get the money I only get pennies and I often feel like I just play to chase after crumbs: with your poker experience what do I need to do for myself become a very profitable poker player.

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I'm glad you asked! If you haven't already, go here and start with day 1. If you finish the course, study, and play in good micro-stakes games, I'm confident you will be a winning player

SillentHunterZ said:

I am thinking of playing poker on serious basis, I just asked about the side money as I want for beginning to support my poker passion with that side money. At the moment I am putting around 30hr per week on playing and 7-10 on reading strategies and books. Atm I am in vacation at home and I am limited with time, once I get back on work I can put around 50+ per week on playing and 10-20 on studying ( as I am apart o f my family and I have free weekends).
Anyway, thanks for the reply.

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Wow that is impressive! It sounds like you'll be doing very well with making money playing poker before long at all Best of luck during the journey!

I have a question, at the moment of starting to play what is the level of blinds that I could play most recommended

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777brio said:

I have a question, at the moment of starting to play what is the level of blinds that I could play most recommended

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In general it will be the most profitable for winning players to make every effort to be in the tournament from the very first blind level--whatever that happens to be for a given tournament. The more opportunities we have to win chips, the better we'll do in the long run!

Hi Collin! What is bubble factor and how it influences on making my decisions?
I use ICMIZER and I just noticed bubble factor multipliers, so I wonder how to count these numbers according making pushing and calling in icm structure.Thanks for answer!

VovanBaron said:

Hi Collin! What is bubble factor and how it influences on making my decisions?

I use ICMIZER and I just noticed bubble factor multipliers, so I wonder how to count these numbers according making pushing and calling in icm structure.Thanks for answer!

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Good question Vovan!

A players bubble factor is how much ICM pressure they face in the hand. There are technical definitions including one I believe in the ICMizer documentation if you’re interested, but the key idea is just that the higher your bubble factor, the more risk averse you’re correct to be calling of shoves and the more you can be pressured by your opponents.

The ranges that icmizer give already take bubble factor into account but they’re very interesting to see and use to understand the dynamics of the situation.

Hi Collin and Katie! This case is on FT. The player on BB is in sitout.Is it profitable to push and with what range?



Here are some thoughts and conclusions about.We can calculate the number of hands when this player lose all his stack , 12hands. Every fold gives 15$ payjump, so we need to take that decisions which give more than 15$ ev in a long run, thats why we can choose hands with profit more than 1.25$ .

VovanBaron said:

Hi Collin and Katie! This case is on FT. The player on BB is in sitout.Is it profitable to push and with what range?

Here are some thoughts and conclusions about.We can calculate the number of hands when this player lose all his stack , 12hands. Every fold gives 15$ payjump, so we need to take that decisions which give more than 15$ ev in a long run, thats why we can choose hands with profit more than 1.25$ .

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That's an interesting way of looking at the math of playing when you're 2nd shortest in chips and the shortest stack is sitting out. But I wouldn't need quite that big an edge for a few reasons:

** The short stack can come back;
** The bigger stacks will occasionally fold to the short stack; (It happens!)
** Waiting for such a large edge blinds will mean you're often getting heavily blinded down

In particular, I would definitely shove the KQs here.

Independent of this exact hand, I really like how you're doing this type of creative analysis with ICMizer!

Collin Moshman said:

That's an interesting way of looking at the math of playing when you're 2nd shortest in chips and the shortest stack is sitting out. But I wouldn't need quite that big an edge for a few reasons:

** The short stack can come back;
** The bigger stacks will occasionally fold to the short stack; (It happens!)
** Waiting for such a large edge blinds will mean you're often getting heavily blinded down

In particular, I would definitely shove the KQs here.

Independent of this exact hand, I really like how you're doing this type of creative analysis with ICMizer!

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Thanks for answer,thoughts! The first screenshot doesnt work now ,I cant open it so I reupload it .I dont know whether you saw it before it crushed

Thanks Vovan, I hadn't seen that screenshot before, and I think it's a very interesting spot with the big blind sitting out. I would still shove the 88 here but definitely agree on tightening our shoving range as an adjustment and folding the lowest pocket pairs.

I actually was in this exact spot today, when it was down to the last 4 players in a MTT. The shortest stack was sitting out, and I had the chipleader on my left. This forced me to play very tight, and I gave him a cupple of walks, when it folded to me, which by the way is something, I picked up from the course "become a winning poker player in 30 days".

There is however a big difference between entering a pot in a situation, where the chipleader can apply ICM-pressure, and jamming on him. Which in this case I did once by min-raising AQs and jamming over his 3-bet. When we jam, the chip leader can not profitably call without a pretty strong hand. So as Collin say, if we have good hands like KQs or 88, I would also go ahead and jam here, since most of the time we are not getting called.

fundiver199 said:

I actually was in this exact spot today, when it was down to the last 4 players in a MTT. The shortest stack was sitting out, and I had the chipleader on my left. This forced me to play very tight, and I gave him a cupple of walks, when it folded to me, which by the way is something, I picked up from the course "become a winning poker player in 30 days".

There is however a big difference between entering a pot in a situation, where the chipleader can apply ICM-pressure, and jamming on him. Which in this case I did once by min-raising AQs and jamming over his 3-bet. When we jam, the chip leader can not profitably call without a pretty strong hand. So as Collin say, if we have good hands like KQs or 88, I would also go ahead and jam here, since most of the time we are not getting called.

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Well played, fundiver, and I totally agree

I've been doing the course for a week or so now and actually asked about if I should start playing sit and go's or spin and go's without ever realising you guys are the Sit n Go gurus! Bit embarrassing now lol.

My question is about how to go about playing the final table, especially when in a strong position. I made my first final table last night with about 30 BB and in 3rd place, about 25BB behind 1st and only a few behind second. In this situation would you recommend massively nitting up and waiting for all the lower players to get knocked out or keep playing a fairly regular range to try and keep chipping up?

I had a big all in pre with KQs against a player about 6BB behind me and ended up crashing from 3rd to last place, clinging on with 5BB just outside the bubble. Luckily I scraped in and got my first SnG cash but it was frustrating given I went into final table in a very strong position. Do you guys think it's best to play way tighter on FT, especially against players close in stacks to me?

nwhitney118 said:

I've been doing the course for a week or so now and actually asked about if I should start playing sit and go's or spin and go's without ever realising you guys are the Sit n Go gurus! Bit embarrassing now lol.

My question is about how to go about playing the final table, especially when in a strong position. I made my first final table last night with about 30 BB and in 3rd place, about 25BB behind 1st and only a few behind second. In this situation would you recommend massively nitting up and waiting for all the lower players to get knocked out or keep playing a fairly regular range to try and keep chipping up?

I had a big all in pre with KQs against a player about 6BB behind me and ended up crashing from 3rd to last place, clinging on with 5BB just outside the bubble. Luckily I scraped in and got my first SnG cash but it was frustrating given I went into final table in a very strong position. Do you guys think it's best to play way tighter on FT, especially against players close in stacks to me?

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Don't worry, Whitney--there's nothing to be embarrassed about

Congrats on making the final table! In general, ICM does dictate that we should tend to tighten up as a mid-stack. The more of a mid-stack we are, the more we should tighten. I know that is a bit ambiguous so here is an example situation:

A final table where we're 5th in chips of 9 players to start. 1 + 2 both have 100 bbs. 3 + 4 + 5 (us included as #5) have 50 bbs. 6 +7 +8 +9 are all players that have 5 big blinds. This is the kind of scenario I describe as being "very mid-stacked" and I would tighten my range for calling an all-in considerably, while also looking for situations where I can apply this ICM pressure on others. If the "short stacks" were less short, then the effect of ICM would be somewhat lessened as well.

The above is pretty true of FT bubble scenarios. In general we want to call tighter as a mid-stack and look for opportunities to apply ICM pressure wherever we deem it to be profitable.

Hope this helps and best of luck at your next final table!

Hello,

You talk about ICM but when you play micro sng,
nobody at the table knows the strategy. Maybe 1 player in 10 games. Most players shove with a2 off suit. Dont care about stack size or position.
Really diificult to put them.on a range.
Usually only play the big cards en suited broadways. No change for creative plays. Because they will call.anything if they hit a pair.
Doesnt mather if its the third of second pair.

opinion

I believe that no one can be a clear specialist in sit and go tournaments. It is a very difficult discipline in which variance plays a key role.

meter said:

Hello,

You talk about ICM but when you play micro sng,
nobody at the table knows the strategy. Maybe 1 player in 10 games. Most players shove with a2 off suit. Dont care about stack size or position.
Really diificult to put them.on a range.
Usually only play the big cards en suited broadways. No change for creative plays. Because they will call.anything if they hit a pair.
Doesnt mather if its the third of second pair.

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ICM is just a mathematical model that takes in a stack distribution and gives equities. You tell it your stack (and the other stacks) and it says the dollar value of your stack which allows you to make better decisions.

The ranges that are normally used when using ICM, equilibrium ranges, can be improved on in the type of games you're talking about. But it's rare that players have no understanding of ICM. Even most crazy opponents have an intuitive grasp that if they're second chip leader on the bubble with a much shorter stack, that they're going to be tighter calling it off and letting someone else cash instead of them

Lenka65 said:

I believe that no one can be a clear specialist in sit and go tournaments. It is a very difficult discipline in which variance plays a key role.

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There are strong SNG specialists but for sure it's a bit more complicated than that when you break down all of the skills involved!

Collin Moshman said:

Even most crazy opponents have an intuitive grasp that if they're second chip leader on the bubble with a much shorter stack, that they're going to be tighter calling it off and letting someone else cash instead of them

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I agree. Putting them all in for their tournament life, especially preflop, is one of the few things, that can make even a whale fold, and especially if its on the bubble or a final table. If you are all in, they cant see a cheap flop and try to hit something, which is, what they most love to do

This also mean, you can often profitably jam over limps, especially if its multible limpers, and you have like a 15-20BB stack. Sure sometimes one of them will make a bad call with his JTo or his 44, but a decent amount of the time you do actually pick it up uncontested and increase your stack 20-30%, which is pretty nice

Hi – What a thrill to have Collin and Katie and their wisdom available to us. And thanks to CardsChat for making it happen!