Poker and the Ego

Ogma

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  • #1
Poker and the Ego


We've all seen them. Dominant players, playing every hand, building a super-commanding chip lead. Beating strong cards and strong pocket pairs with their 5 2 off suit after they hit their straights and counterfeit flushes on the river. It can lead a person to start to believe that the game is rigged towards the chip leader.

Flying high, playing whatever two cards are dealt to them, fearless, unstoppable forces, Newton's laws of momentum in full effect. They create a path of chaotic destruction, leaving our carefully chosen and patiently played aces and face cards flying in the wind of their wake.

And then a few hands later, you look at the leaderboard and they're nowhere to be seen. Gone! Out! Crashed like Icarus after his wings melted. They flew too close to the poker sun, because the other side of the poker ego is running into trouble - big trouble. Tilts and meltdowns and bad decisions - all super-ego driven.

The mental aspect of the game is huge. Failure to consider what your opponent is holding can be a fatal sign of over confidence leading to fatal consequences, but also you have to maintain a balance of confidence so as not to believe you have no chance in the hand. Some dip in and out as their intuition suits them. Some strictly play the cards. Some play the blinds. And then some let their ego rip.

Ego can also make players feel entitled to a pot after a pre-flop raise. Say your pocket 10s miss the flop and you're in a 3 handed situation against a board of J 4 4. Does ego drive the continuation bet here? Or is it good poker sense to check and see how the land lies?

The poker ego can destroy patience as one gets caught up in the adrenaline rush of winning pot after pot. I was recently given some sage advice, 'don't try to be sheriff of the town right away'. The ego-driven player with the stack of chips would disagree. Either way, the lack of emotional awareness and control through a patient approach can be fatal to your poker success.

Ego can lead to players being too concerned about their own image, leading to a loss of focus when making important decisions. Some players thrive off of the fear built up through their image but don't let that lead to your downfall, turn it into a tool to benefit yourself. A person's ego can be the perfect way to trap somebody, for example when their pride won't let them fold. This can be extremely satisfying.

And finally, there's the singling out of single players. It might be a player history thing, a certain player who gave you a particularly bad beat before, you may feel 'owes you some good fortune' this time. It may be a ranking thing, a player ranked higher than you who you wish to emulate or maybe you fear. It may be a player you look up to having seen their near-constant success. It may be their avatar, it might be a player you subconsciously find attractive on some level. When any of these factors affect your decision making, it is detrimental to cold, logical, methodical play.

Ego. So how do you keep yours in check? If at all? Or do you let yours run free? Is ego part of our poker DNA? Is it merely a question of balance?

Do you meditate? Focus on breathing? Do you 'reset' yourself after every hand? Clear out the stray thoughts and crap and create a blank canvas or embrace the rollercoaster ride and play out the story to the very end, be that bitter or sweet.
 
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I Live Poker

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  • #2
It's interesting that you say that, because there are no lies here.
However, what makes someone join poker?
-Money= ego
-Fame=ego
-Glory=ego
-Success=ego
-Dream=ego
-Be the best=ego
What are our perspectives on what is right and wrong in poker?

We can know which hand has an advantage over which hand, but to put ourselves in situations of advantage over hands it is necessary to assume the opponent's hand.

And in the end it's all just ego!

 
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  • #3
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Igor G

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  • #4
I play poker for fun, I play to distract myself and get positive emotions. I am a disciplined and patient player. I don't expect poker to make me a millionaire, but I know for sure that poker can be a source of additional income and a source of pleasant experiences and positive emotions. I often meet super aggressive and super confident players, literally in every tournament. If luck is on my side and I make it to the final table, these super aggressive and super confident players are usually gone :)
I think disciplined, patient players have a much better chance of a good result than super aggressive and super confident ones.
 
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  • #5
Igor G said:
I play poker for fun, I play to distract myself and get positive emotions. I am a disciplined and patient player. I don't expect poker to make me a millionaire, but I know for sure that poker can be a source of additional income and a source of pleasant experiences and positive emotions. I often meet super aggressive and super confident players, literally in every tournament. If luck is on my side and I make it to the final table, these super aggressive and super confident players are usually gone :)
I think disciplined, patient players have a much better chance of a good result than super aggressive and super confident ones.
You just think, but it's not like that.:)
Disciplined and patient players always arrive short stacked at the final tables and depend on a good hand to win.
While the aggressive ones arrive with huge stacks of chips, they tend to win the tournament easily.
But there needs to be this variety of players, someone needs to win!:ROFLMAO:
 
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Ogma

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  • #6
I Live Poker said:
It's interesting that you say that, because there are no lies here.
However, what makes someone join poker?
-Money= ego
-Fame=ego
-Glory=ego
-Success=ego
-Dream=ego
-Be the best=ego
What are our perspectives on what is right and wrong in poker?

We can know which hand has an advantage over which hand, but to put ourselves in situations of advantage over hands it is necessary to assume the opponent's hand.

And in the end it's all just ego!
Isn't that the truth!

Back when I started playing in the 80s, yes we were playing for chump change but I used to like making pretty hands. The flushes and the full houses, especially the straight flushes. Art. Satisfied my need for order. And it turned out the more prettier hands were some of the most valuable. Being one card short of a straight flush, you're not complete. I think we crave being whole.
 
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  • #7
The ego wont matter much to the one who study a lot,its about knowing the game and knowing what you are doing,so in that case,even with oponents that can try to mess with your ego you will be playing a correct game based on your knowledge about it
God bless
 
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  • #8
Ogma said:
Isn't that the truth!

Back when I started playing in the 80s, yes we were playing for chump change but I used to like making pretty hands. The flushes and the full houses, especially the straight flushes. Art. Satisfied my need for order. And it turned out the more prettier hands were some of the most valuable. Being one card short of a straight flush, you're not complete. I think we crave being whole.
Don't worry man, there's no way to live without an ego here in this world. But as you mentioned, controlling your ego helps a lot.
I've been thinking, I got into poker for ego, then I saw the beauty in impermanence, I discovered a certain mastery through mathematics and the beauty of that. However, feeling complete is beyond that, it's not just poker, it's what it makes you know about yourself.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but who defines beauty?
 
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  • #9
Igor G said:
I play poker for fun, I play to distract myself and get positive emotions. I am a disciplined and patient player. I don't expect poker to make me a millionaire, but I know for sure that poker can be a source of additional income and a source of pleasant experiences and positive emotions. I often meet super aggressive and super confident players, literally in every tournament. If luck is on my side and I make it to the final table, these super aggressive and super confident players are usually gone :)
I think disciplined, patient players have a much better chance of a good result than super aggressive and super confident ones.
I think it depends somewhat on the day and the rub of the green but generally, I think you are right, yes.

When I started playing on Replay, there was this French lad, I can't remember his name and I wouldn't publicise it here even if I could remember. We served our apprenticeship together as rookies, played a lot of poker together and this guy was good. Almost always made the final table. Sometimes he had very few chips but he was there with a chip and a chair. And I kept observing him over our month as rookies and beyond and I was very impressed with his patience. And I tested him, I tested his patience over the rookie period, tested how straight he was, how strong he was, how far I could push him, what I could get away with, and I grew respect for him as a player. I respected his mentality and his patience and the fact that nearly every fricking time we'd be there at the final table.

I went looking for him a few months ago. He'd worked his way up the rankings, I found his page. Where you type a bit about yourself he'd gone on a diatribe and had sadly, obviously totally lost his mind. He was accusing the site of being rigged, the cards being rigged, he was full of anger at some of the other players. I found it really sad that this bastion of patience and calm sensible straight play had popped a fuse somewhere. Man, I had thought he was as solid as a rock.

I really hope he's OK, whatever he's doing now.
 
Ogma

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  • #10
GarotoMaroto said:
The ego wont matter much to the one who study a lot,its about knowing the game and knowing what you are doing,so in that case,even with oponents that can try to mess with your ego you will be playing a correct game based on your knowledge about it
God bless
There will always be some times when you are more vulnerable to ego than others. No matter how good you are.

I was in a hand with one of the most respected players on here. I'd called a small raise with my A10 and was generally doing my best job at giving off an impression of being weak and nervous. I flopped another 2 aces, I was doing such a good job of pretending to be weak I almost folded myself. I checked the flop and put a tiny nervous bet on the turn card, an 8. The river was a king which I could tell was a good card for my opponent from the size of his river bet. Long story short, I threw all my chips in making it look like I was over-repping the turn card 8 to the point of being a bluff, and he called thinking he had the best of it until he saw my 3 aces.
Now that was from a very good player who is very successful in the Cardschat tournaments. Players make mistakes. Ego can make good players do dumb shit. I've done dumb shit myself. I get your point about knowing the game and knowing what you are doing but fatigue happens and ego happens.

I quote from @I Live Poker's post above yours.
We can know which hand has an advantage over which hand, but to put ourselves in situations of advantage over hands it is necessary to assume the opponent's hand.
 
mattiebumpo

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  • #11
Great post...I think there is a fine balance between ego and confidence. For me to play my best poker, I need to feel confident in my decision making and be able to exercise detachment from the results and from variance/bad beats/coolers. I also need to keep my ego in check because there always seems to be a "nemesis" at my table that I tangle with over and over. Sometimes, it seems like they are attacking my blinds or playing back at my raises constantly. Maybe it is just a coincidence that they get good hands at the same time I get good hands? I find that I need to fight the feeling that it is "personal" and keep my paranoia in check. If someone outplays me, outflops me, or I think they may have bluffed me, it is natural to want to "get my chips back." I try to recognize when I am having these emotional reactions and take a mental step back. I focus on my breathing. I stand up and stretch. I physically and mentally try to shake it off.
 
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  • #12
The ego will always be present in our lives, however, if we are not prepared to deal with it, it can blind us and make us stupid and weak people. The ego is good when we want to be the best of ourselves and be successful in life.
 
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  • #13
I just don't take myself too seriously. It helps me.
 
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  • #14
mattiebumpo said:
Great post...I think there is a fine balance between ego and confidence. For me to play my best poker, I need to feel confident in my decision making and be able to exercise detachment from the results and from variance/bad beats/coolers. I also need to keep my ego in check because there always seems to be a "nemesis" at my table that I tangle with over and over. Sometimes, it seems like they are attacking my blinds or playing back at my raises constantly. Maybe it is just a coincidence that they get good hands at the same time I get good hands? I find that I need to fight the feeling that it is "personal" and keep my paranoia in check. If someone outplays me, outflops me, or I think they may have bluffed me, it is natural to want to "get my chips back." I try to recognize when I am having these emotional reactions and take a mental step back. I focus on my breathing. I stand up and stretch. I physically and mentally try to shake it off.
Perfect description of some of the dangers of the ego and how it can affect the thought processes in the day to day poker 'battle'. I've come a cropper before trying to 'steal back' blinds that I feel were stolen from me. Breathe deep.
 
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  • #15
Stick to your gameplan no mattee what ,statistical fluctuactions is a part of the game
 
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  • #16
Overconfidence in poker is more of a disadvantage than an advantage. Usually self-confident players can play pretty well, have pretty good results, but it definitely won't last long enough. After a period of rapid and dynamic growth, there will definitely be a collapse. Overconfidence in poker leads to significant losses.
 
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  • #17
Ogma said:
And finally, there's the singling out of single players. It might be a player history thing, a certain player who gave you a particularly bad beat before, you may feel 'owes you some good fortune' this time. It may be a ranking thing, a player ranked higher than you who you wish to emulate or maybe you fear. It may be a player you look up to having seen their near-constant success. It may be their avatar, it might be a player you subconsciously find attractive on some level. When any of these factors affect your decision making, it is detrimental to cold, logical, methodical play.
Oh yes, I love when the fox is in my opponents head! I'm more dangerous on Replay than on 888 for example. Why? Because I have an Insane Fox in my avatar on Replay (while on 888 you can only choose template avatars). And my opponents, when they see my avatar on Replay, want to feed the fox. I'm in your head. Forever! :eek:
 
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  • #18
Ego, alterego, superego and ALL that stuff... Lets play poker and have some Fun...

Maybe fun is about ego too hahaha
 
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  • #19
Ogma said:
Poker and the Ego


We've all seen them. Dominant players, playing every hand, building a super-commanding chip lead. Beating strong cards and strong pocket pairs with their 5 2 off suit after they hit their straights and counterfeit flushes on the river. It can lead a person to start to believe that the game is rigged towards the chip leader.

Flying high, playing whatever two cards are dealt to them, fearless, unstoppable forces, Newton's laws of momentum in full effect. They create a path of chaotic destruction, leaving our carefully chosen and patiently played aces and face cards flying in the wind of their wake.

And then a few hands later, you look at the leaderboard and they're nowhere to be seen. Gone! Out! Crashed like Icarus after his wings melted. They flew too close to the poker sun, because the other side of the poker ego is running into trouble - big trouble. Tilts and meltdowns and bad decisions - all super-ego driven.

The mental aspect of the game is huge. Failure to consider what your opponent is holding can be a fatal sign of over confidence leading to fatal consequences, but also you have to maintain a balance of confidence so as not to believe you have no chance in the hand. Some dip in and out as their intuition suits them. Some strictly play the cards. Some play the blinds. And then some let their ego rip.

Ego can also make players feel entitled to a pot after a pre-flop raise. Say your pocket 10s miss the flop and you're in a 3 handed situation against a board of J 4 4. Does ego drive the continuation bet here? Or is it good poker sense to check and see how the land lies?

The poker ego can destroy patience as one gets caught up in the adrenaline rush of winning pot after pot. I was recently given some sage advice, 'don't try to be sheriff of the town right away'. The ego-driven player with the stack of chips would disagree. Either way, the lack of emotional awareness and control through a patient approach can be fatal to your poker success.

Ego can lead to players being too concerned about their own image, leading to a loss of focus when making important decisions. Some players thrive off of the fear built up through their image but don't let that lead to your downfall, turn it into a tool to benefit yourself. A person's ego can be the perfect way to trap somebody, for example when their pride won't let them fold. This can be extremely satisfying.

And finally, there's the singling out of single players. It might be a player history thing, a certain player who gave you a particularly bad beat before, you may feel 'owes you some good fortune' this time. It may be a ranking thing, a player ranked higher than you who you wish to emulate or maybe you fear. It may be a player you look up to having seen their near-constant success. It may be their avatar, it might be a player you subconsciously find attractive on some level. When any of these factors affect your decision making, it is detrimental to cold, logical, methodical play.

Ego. So how do you keep yours in check? If at all? Or do you let yours run free? Is ego part of our poker DNA? Is it merely a question of balance?

Do you meditate? Focus on breathing? Do you 'reset' yourself after every hand? Clear out the stray thoughts and crap and create a blank canvas or embrace the rollercoaster ride and play out the story to the very end, be that bitter or sweet.

Great post mate (y). I wanted to say something or comment, but anything I think about is already there :).

That last paragraph made me think of something I always said though. Never make things personal in these 2 activities: Driving and poker.

As to how to keep that beast in check, you might suspect that I have tried many things by now, and I did.
I've practiced a couple of different types of meditation for a few years, still, but not as regularly as before (Unfortunately) though it wasn't for the sole purpose of poker.
I've read every tilt related topic I could get my hands on.
Now, my main weapon is to continuously remind myself during any session, to stay calm and focused no matter what happens. But if I see that my dear ego got seriously damaged, especially as a result of some ridiculous beat, I get up for a few minutes and do something else (A nice piece of music does the job most of the time).
 
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  • #20
I was doing yoga this morning. More tiring than one might think.

Didn't help my poker though :ROFLMAO:
 
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  • #21
At first - thank you for this article, very interesting thoughts. And I want to answer for your question l understand that it is just a game drink delicious tea and determine I do good o (conduct an analysis) and if l do good l do not get upset
 
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  • #22
Peppermint Tea is my 'secret' (not so secret) weapon.
 
Manjerica1

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  • #23
what poetry about poker and ego that you wrote, I enjoyed the words and the teachings.

Now to answer your question at the end of the text, I saw myself several times in the text you described, while I play I have a gigantic ego, and if I'm on autopilot, it's "he" who is playing.

I got tired of being chip leader and tournaments in the final stages only to fall into a ridiculous 4bet bluff, against a guy who was patiently waiting his turn to hunt me down, and after making a stupid move I would leave TILTED and take out my anger on cigarettes and easy dopamine.

I did this so much that after making the same thing so many mistakes I finally ended up learning. Age didn't help either, at the beginning when I was 20 to 24 years old or so, I still didn't have the awareness I have today.

Today I find myself much more present, especially in important final stretches, and the ego ends up being the least of my problems, but as soon as I let the autopilot return, the ego returns. So, I've been practicing mindfulness Vipassanā for about 2 years now.

I'm still very young and an ego under (de)construction, but that's it. Your post is very good! o/

It made me reflect a lot on the subject and I certainly learned some things from here.
 
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  • #24
I like the cut of your jib, sir.
 
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  • #25
The problem, however, is that poker is very different from most other games and sports. Poker is a game where bad beats and coolers happen all the time, things we can't control. And they will continue to happen in the future, greatly affecting short-term results. Even the best poker player can lose to the worst if he's having a bad run. But we certainly know that's not going to happen in the long run.Don't bring ego to the table.Remember that you are not playing against a bunch of "specific" opponents, but against a collective whole. If you leave a table because you are too tired or are being 3-bet too often, then you are making a strategic adjustment.
 
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