Should I have folded these?

[Kirbs69]

Genuine question here. Not sure if this is a easy call, Or a fold.

I would have called if my chips wasn't so badly pressured.

Is this what icm pressure is?

 

[joango123456789]

It's hard to tell not knowing how many players left and how many are in the money.

 

[MK_]

Well I enjoy being levelled as much as the next person😏 ....

you have 11 bbs with AQ and the bb shoves?,

... 15bbs with AJ and you hit your Ace?,

icm pressure is generally related to the

bubble or laddering up on the final table...

there are 17 players left here... carry on👍

 

[tihomir_kula]

If the tournament was low money or freeroll, you had to go on.

 

[hardongear]

Without knowing how many are left till the money I voted yes to both hands. The only way I wouldn't be shoving both is if you were right on the stone cold bubble with only one player to bust till the money. I don't play to min cash unless right on the bubble. When close to the bubble I'm shoving, betting and raising to steal as many blinds as possible so I can deep and get paid a lot better then a min cash. In my 20+ years experience playing to min cash is losing poker because min cashing never pays enough long term to be profitable. A min cash would have to pay almost triple the buy-in to make min cashing profitable long term. Min cashing only typically pays pocket change above the buy-in.

Not that my opinion matters but min cashing should pay exactly double the buy-in back so if the buy-in is $5.50 for an MTT a min cash should pay no less then $10(you lose only the rake amount). I don't like online pay structures. When I host live home game MTT's my structure always pays a min cash double the buy-in.

Cheers!!!

 

[Kirbs69]

It's hard to tell not knowing how many players left and how many are in the money.

It literally says what position I am at and how many people are left. 🤣

If you look on the middle of the screen you will see it. It is small in your defense 😇

 

[Kirbs69]

Well I enjoy being levelled as much as the next person😏 ....

you have 11 bbs with AQ and the bb shoves?,

... 15bbs with AJ and you hit your Ace?,

icm pressure is generally related to the

bubble or laddering up on the final table...

there are 17 players left here... carry on👍

I've heard some people saying folding AA pre is worth it, if winning the whole tournament is possible. I am not sure in what context that is. Maybe for payouts are for 20th but if you're gonna risk going out in 21st.

Not sure if that is applicable here. But it felt like the right play. I did end up going out in 4th in the final table 😁

 

[Kirbs69]

If the tournament was low money or freeroll, you had to go on.

That's 1 way to put it🤣

 

[Kirbs69]

Without knowing how many are left till the money I voted yes to both hands. The only way I wouldn't be shoving both is if you were right on the stone cold bubble with only one player to bust till the money. I don't play to min cash unless right on the bubble. When close to the bubble I'm shoving, betting and raising to steal as many blinds as possible so I can deep and get paid a lot better then a min cash. In my 20+ years experience playing to min cash is losing poker because min cashing never pays enough long term to be profitable. A min cash would have to pay almost triple the buy-in to make min cashing profitable long term. Min cashing only typically pays pocket change above the buy-in.

Not that my opinion matters but min cashing should pay exactly double the buy-in back so if the buy-in is $5.50 for an MTT a min cash should pay no less then $10(you lose only the rake amount). I don't like online pay structures. When I host live home game MTT's my structure always pays a min cash double the buy-in.

Cheers!!!

That's interesting 🤔 maybe 1 day I can move from min cashing strategies to trying to get 'deep'.

Do you stream your home games? I've been looking for some content with home games. I used to watch all out poker but he stopped doing em. He was based in Canada so I don't think he was allowed to.

 

[SpanRmonka]

IN the first hand, OP would be calling, a raise to his bet, and then a 3 bet all in, so its not crazy to fold AJ there at all despite hitting the A. Without knowing the action pre flop its hard to say though.

In the 2nd hand the OP would be calling a raise, an pretty irrellevant All in and 3 bet shove, so to be honest, I think you can fold here too, but callung is not a massive mistake.

I would assume there are lots of players in this, so probs ITM already, but who knows. OP maybe?

In terms of ICM pressure, this is not really it, this is more just the fact that the value of hands you are against goes up as more players are prepared to raise or shove all in. But there is some ICM pressure as you are not a million miles away from the FT and getting towards the decent payouts.

If you want to get better advice, then posting a full hand history would be better.

I assume you know if you folded correctly or not, as you saw what your opponents had, so this maybe feels a little bit like you're hoping to say say, I folded to AK in both hands or something like that.....or maybe you would have won and you want to understand why you should have called. Either way, we need more info

 

[Poker Orifice]

IN the first hand, OP would be calling, a raise to his bet, and then a 3 bet all in, so its not crazy to fold AJ there at all despite hitting the A. Without knowing the action pre flop its hard to say though.

the action pre looks like HERO raises... and they all just call.
Leads out with CBet...
player who made the small reraise on flop seems to have called it off when other player jams (see hand #2) and HERO(?) folds.


I think on a table like this it is difficult to say what to do. It's basically a guess. Player reads would help a bunch though.

 

[fundiver199]

The AJ hand is a fold facing a 3-bet and then a cold 4-bet for 22BB. Also we should not open to 3.2BB. With stacks this short we min-raise or go slightly larger like 2.2BB.

The AQ hand is a clear call in chip-EV, and since no information is given about, where in tournament we are, it was likely a substantial mistake to fold a hand this strong to a single player moving all-in for just 13BB.

We dominate a lot of his range like worse AX, KQ etc, and this would have been a great chance to dubble up and then some. If we dont take spots like this, we significantly reduce our chance to make deep runs, which is always more important than min-cashing.

 

[Kirbs69]

IN the first hand, OP would be calling, a raise to his bet, and then a 3 bet all in, so its not crazy to fold AJ there at all despite hitting the A. Without knowing the action pre flop its hard to say though.

In the 2nd hand the OP would be calling a raise, an pretty irrellevant All in and 3 bet shove, so to be honest, I think you can fold here too, but callung is not a massive mistake.

I would assume there are lots of players in this, so probs ITM already, but who knows. OP maybe?

In terms of ICM pressure, this is not really it, this is more just the fact that the value of hands you are against goes up as more players are prepared to raise or shove all in. But there is some ICM pressure as you are not a million miles away from the FT and getting towards the decent payouts.

If you want to get better advice, then posting a full hand history would be better.

I assume you know if you folded correctly or not, as you saw what your opponents had, so this maybe feels a little bit like you're hoping to say say, I folded to AK in both hands or something like that.....or maybe you would have won and you want to understand why you should have called. Either way, we need more info

the action pre looks like HERO raises... and they all just call.
Leads out with CBet...
player who made the small reraise on flop seems to have called it off when other player jams (see hand #2) and HERO(?) folds.


I think on a table like this it is difficult to say what to do. It's basically a guess. Player reads would help a bunch though.

The AJ hand is a fold facing a 3-bet and then a cold 4-bet for 22BB. Also we should not open to 3.2BB. With stacks this short we min-raise or go slightly larger like 2.2BB.

The AQ hand is a clear call in chip-EV, and since no information is given about, where in tournament we are, it was likely a substantial mistake to fold a hand this strong to a single player moving all-in for just 13BB.

We dominate a lot of his range like worse AX, KQ etc, and this would have been a great chance to dubble up and then some. If we dont take spots like this, we significantly reduce our chance to make deep runs, which is always more important than min-cashing.

#1) no doubt. Decisions come through last action. But here I thought it was being played straight up. I guess I wanted to know if this was +ev/icm.

My strategy so far has been surviving to get min cashes. Which is good for results. But like you said it's not really valuable in the long run. Since you'd want to go deep. I find in my stakes that I play at. Survival is better than going after the blinds. But hopefully I can get enough bankroll where I don't have to worry about all that.

Thank you for your replies it helps me out greatly!

#2) I don't really understand what you're saying but you're probably correct.

I am pretty sure if my recollection is correct. I opened then I got called then min raised. I called, out of position calls. Then the action as follows.

I am still getting used to my reads. But so far I find that (in game tags in 888) donkeys tends to be unpredictable. So if price is right I would call more often than fold. While fishes I tend to play the flop more often.

Did that help you much?

#3) it must have been a typo. You mean cbet to 3.2?? Opening for 2.2 I don't see the difference for that. It's not my level of expertise. I tend to just bet the 'normal' sizing 3x plus 1 per limp and 4 or 5x out of position.

The second part is my go to. I just went for the latter because 🤷 playing scared. I prefer to survive. Than going deep I guess.

Thank you for your replies. This were all very interesting to read and talk about after a few days. It took me a while to reply because I didn't have the mental power to remember the actions. But since my last outing Thread '4th place exit again!?' https://www.casino.us/cardschat/bad-beats-and-vents-71/4th-place-exit-again-559380/ I was able to get a refresher.

Thanks everyone for participating!
Don't forget to vote also as it's only Open for 1 month

 

[fundiver199]

I am not sure, I completely understand your last post. Next time its better, if you post the actual hand histories rather than just a screenshot, and then also post in the tournament hand review section. There is a guide here:

How to Post a Tournament Poker Hand for Analysis

CardsChat makes it easy to share your tournament poker hands for analysis by other poker players. We break it down for you step-by-step.

www.casino.us

 

[dreamer13]

There is no need to take it so seriously, it's just a game.Whatever makes the game more enjoyable and allows you to play it with less resistance. "Serious play" is still part of the game. Do what creates flow.Many games are more fun to play if you don't take them too seriously.

 

[Kirbs69]

I am not sure, I completely understand your last post. Next time its better, if you post the actual hand histories rather than just a screenshot, and then also post in the tournament hand review section. There is a guide here:

How to Post a Tournament Poker Hand for Analysis

CardsChat makes it easy to share your tournament poker hands for analysis by other poker players. We break it down for you step-by-step.

www.casino.us

When I find much better spots I will definitely use this feature! 😁👍

 

[Kirbs69]

I am not sure, I completely understand your last post. Next time its better, if you post the actual hand histories rather than just a screenshot, and then also post in the tournament hand review section. There is a guide here:

How to Post a Tournament Poker Hand for Analysis

CardsChat makes it easy to share your tournament poker hands for analysis by other poker players. We break it down for you step-by-step.

www.casino.us

Thread '$$0 NL HE MTT: ' https://www.casino.us/cardschat/tournament-hand-analysis-51/0-nl-he-mtt-559408/
Check this out!

 

[eetenor]

Genuine question here. Not sure if this is a easy call, Or a fold.

I would have called if my chips wasn't so badly pressured.

Is this what icm pressure is?

ICM pressure refers to the chips you lose being worth more than the chips you win. In the AJ hand ICM does play a part as you are either in the money or close to it. As another poster pointed out the strength of the other players hands is a key factor to folding here and if you thought it was a close decision ICM would indicate fold.

 

[kunkgreen]

You've already had some great insights here, but I'll try to get my point across briefly.

1 - I think it's a safe fold here, even with top pair... I say this because of the table situation and without much information about the villains.

They should still have a few better hands in their ranges, like AQs for example. They might have hit some sets too. It's still an unusual situation because it's a multiway spot.

So I believe it's best to stay alive and with 15bb we still have a lot of play left!

2 - I believe it would be an excellent spot to go all-in due to the dead money in the pot, plus the potential for a double-up... I think your hand is on the edge of the calling range on the shove, something around 5%.

(AQo+, AJs+ and 88+)