$5 NL HE MTT: Drill

[Geo90]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

5

Game Options

1. Turbo

Currency

$

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=4a10nlR4
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=4a10nm7s

How would you have played in these situations? Isn't 3bet too aggressive? Would it have been better to call and let them bet?

In the first case, I 3bet because of the flush draw, I would rule out a straight draw, PF raised, maybe he has 44-55

KQ, it might have been better to call and then bethalf the pot R

 

[primrose]

#1 Preflop: I'm folding; I'm dominated here a lot. Except BN does this constantly, in which case I'd probably 4bet. I basically ~never flat 3bets with mediocre Aces

#1 Flop: call.

#1 Turn: also call, do not raise, this line is super value-heavy; you're not getting any more money from a weaker hand this way. And a better Ace isn't folding. So this doesn't work as a value bet (I guess unless opponent has exactly one high spade) and it doesn't work as a bluff. Call and check River. Flush draw is whatever imo. You're right it's a reason for raising, but I don't think it's enough.

#2 Preflop: standard

#2 Flop: 4way you could lead this even though your hand is very nutted. If you're checking, I guess you have to check-call.

#2 Turn: stop it with the turn raises ☠️ those are really value-heavy. You gotta check-call again here. Maybe lead River, maybe check River.

You could even donk the Turn, that would be an interesting play. Definitely disguises your hand more than a check-raise. The problem really is that you played the single most expected line for your hand in both cases, so people probably put you on exactly what you have.

 

[Geo90]

#1 Preflop: I'm folding; I'm dominated here a lot. Except BN does this constantly, in which case I'd probably 4bet. I basically ~never flat 3bets with mediocre Aces

#1 Flop: call.

#1 Turn: also call, do not raise, this line is super value-heavy; you're not getting any more money from a weaker hand this way. And a better Ace isn't folding. So this doesn't work as a value bet (I guess unless opponent has exactly one high spade) and it doesn't work as a bluff. Call and check River. Flush draw is whatever imo. You're right it's a reason for raising, but I don't think it's enough.

#2 Preflop: standard

#2 Flop: 4way you could lead this even though your hand is very nutted. If you're checking, I guess you have to check-call.

#2 Turn: stop it with the turn raises ☠️ those are really value-heavy. You gotta check-call again here. Maybe lead River, maybe check River.

You could even donk the Turn, that would be an interesting play. Definitely disguises your hand more than a check-raise. The problem really is that you played the single most expected line for your hand in both cases, so people probably put you on exactly what you have.

There were six max tables in this tournament, so I tend to give a little more leeway at this point. What would be the bottom of your range that you would call? Would you 3-bet?

Lately, I've been working on 3-betting more with Ax Axs hands before the flop, especially with AxS hands, as I've been playing them poorly so far.

Then T, the 3-bet was too aggressive, but if a spade comes down, I think I'll be pretty behind.

 

[Geo90]

#1 Preflop: I'm folding; I'm dominated here a lot. Except BN does this constantly, in which case I'd probably 4bet. I basically ~never flat 3bets with mediocre Aces

#1 Flop: call.

#1 Turn: also call, do not raise, this line is super value-heavy; you're not getting any more money from a weaker hand this way. And a better Ace isn't folding. So this doesn't work as a value bet (I guess unless opponent has exactly one high spade) and it doesn't work as a bluff. Call and check River. Flush draw is whatever imo. You're right it's a reason for raising, but I don't think it's enough.

#2 Preflop: standard

#2 Flop: 4way you could lead this even though your hand is very nutted. If you're checking, I guess you have to check-call.

#2 Turn: stop it with the turn raises ☠️ those are really value-heavy. You gotta check-call again here. Maybe lead River, maybe check River.

You could even donk the Turn, that would be an interesting play. Definitely disguises your hand more than a check-raise. The problem really is that you played the single most expected line for your hand in both cases, so people probably put you on exactly what you have.

2. In retrospect, I felt that the 3bet was a big mistake here, as it only scared off my opponent, and I rarely see 3bet bluffs at micro stakes.

Yes, a 1/2 pot donk bet on the river would have been a better play, even an A high could have worked, but this was too straightforward.

 

[primrose]

There were six max tables in this tournament, so I tend to give a little more leeway at this point. What would be the bottom of your range that you would call? Would you 3-bet?

Lately, I've been working on 3-betting more with Ax Axs hands before the flop, especially with AxS hands, as I've been playing them poorly so far.

Then T, the 3-bet was too aggressive, but if a spade comes down, I think I'll be pretty behind.

(I think you're confusing 3bet and 4bet; the blinds are the first bet, your RFI is a 2bet, the BN raise is a 3bet; if you're raising now, it's a 4bet.)

Well I'm mostly playing live and I think you should fold almost everything there. Online you definitely do need to have a calling range though. But this hand is just so gross to call with because AK, AQ, and even AJ are some of the most likely hands to 3bet. Here I would probably call with any suited connector and any pair, fold the unsuited broadways (KJo, QJo etc., probably even KQo), and if I'm looking for 4bet semi-bluffs, probably suited Aces and (if I need more) maybe off-suit Aces. This isn't what GTO does when 3bet, but GTO assumes that your opponent has way more bluffs here than they actually do. I just think real 3bet ranges are more Ax heavy than GTO ranges, which makes hands like A9o worse to call with. (Although it seems like your opponent didn't have the Ace here, they probably had a pocket pair.)

if your opponent 3bets wide, you can probably call with KQ and AQ, maybe AJ; who knows, maybe you're dominating them. But even a wide 3bet range doesn't include A8o.

You're not necessarily behind on a fourth spade. Opponent is somewhat unlikely to have a lower spade than 9 (though it's possible), but they're > 50% likely to not have a spade at all.

 

[fundiver199]

Hand1 A9o

Preflop
Open is fine but its a fold to the 3-bet. In general we want to avoid defending to 3-bets with reverse implied odds type hands, that is hands, that are often going to be second best, if the 3-bettor puts a lot of chips into the pot. And with a hand like A9o the obvious issue is A high boards, where we will often get shown at least AK or AQ, if the opponent keep on firing. Even defending with AJo is marginal, unless you have some kind of read, that the opponent is 3-betting way to much.

Flop
As played you obviously need to call at least one street, when you hit top pair.

Turn
I am not sure, if this check-raise is for value, or if you are turning trips into a bluff? If its for value, you are overplaying your hand, and if its a bluff, your hand is to strong for that. So regardless of the rationale, I dont like this raise, and I would just call again and make a decision of the river. You could fill up or make a 9 high flush, and if he bombs the pot on a blank, you can still get away and fold.

Hand2 KQo

Preflop
Standard open

Flop
Obviously a great flop, and I understand the urge to slowplay here. And if there were multible people left to act behind you, I would like it a bit more. But here you are hoping for just one guy to bet, so I would prefer going for a small C-bet myself. You are probably going to get a lot of folds, but on a board like QQ6 you are not getting a ton of action later either, unless someone has the last Q or improve to a hand, that beat you. Like maybe someone has 22-55 and turn a boat, and now you just set yourself up to lose a big pot by letting them see the turn for free.

Turn
As played I would continue to just call. Even if the guy has 6X, which I think is kind of unlikely, he wont always call a raise now AND then also call a bet on the river, because its so obvious, that you most likely has a Q, when you take this kind of line. So you are mostly getting action, when you chop or run into quads, And by raising now you dont give him the chance to continue bluffing on the river. So I would check-call here again and pretend, I have a hand like AA or KK, which is pot controlling due to the paired board and might consider folding to a bit river bet.

 

[Geo90]

(I think you're confusing 3bet and 4bet; the blinds are the first bet, your RFI is a 2bet, the BN raise is a 3bet; if you're raising now, it's a 4bet.)

Well I'm mostly playing live and I think you should fold almost everything there. Online you definitely do need to have a calling range though. But this hand is just so gross to call with because AK, AQ, and even AJ are some of the most likely hands to 3bet. Here I would probably call with any suited connector and any pair, fold the unsuited broadways (KJo, QJo etc., probably even KQo), and if I'm looking for 4bet semi-bluffs, probably suited Aces and (if I need more) maybe off-suit Aces. This isn't what GTO does when 3bet, but GTO assumes that your opponent has way more bluffs here than they actually do. I just think real 3bet ranges are more Ax heavy than GTO ranges, which makes hands like A9o worse to call with. (Although it seems like your opponent didn't have the Ace here, they probably had a pocket pair.)

if your opponent 3bets wide, you can probably call with KQ and AQ, maybe AJ; who knows, maybe you're dominating them. But even a wide 3bet range doesn't include A8o.

You're not necessarily behind on a fourth spade. Opponent is somewhat unlikely to have a lower spade than 9 (though it's possible), but they're > 50% likely to not have a spade at all.

Thank you, I should have known this by now, but I do mix them up. Hopefully, I've learned my lesson!

He's a regular player, plays at many tables, I meet him in lots of tournaments, he 3-bets quite a lot, that's why I called, but A8 is definitely not in his range, it was too loose of me to call.

I almost only 4-bet with premium hands, which is another mistake, I'm trying to work on my 3-bet calling range and 3bet range.

 

[Geo90]

Hand1 A9o

Preflop
Open is fine but its a fold to the 3-bet. In general we want to avoid defending to 3-bets with reverse implied odds type hands, that is hands, that are often going to be second best, if the 3-bettor puts a lot of chips into the pot. And with a hand like A9o the obvious issue is A high boards, where we will often get shown at least AK or AQ, if the opponent keep on firing. Even defending with AJo is marginal, unless you have some kind of read, that the opponent is 3-betting way to much.

Flop
As played you obviously need to call at least one street, when you hit top pair.

Turn
I am not sure, if this check-raise is for value, or if you are turning trips into a bluff? If its for value, you are overplaying your hand, and if its a bluff, your hand is to strong for that. So regardless of the rationale, I dont like this raise, and I would just call again and make a decision of the river. You could fill up or make a 9 high flush, and if he bombs the pot on a blank, you can still get away and fold.

Hand2 KQo

Preflop
Standard open

Flop
Obviously a great flop, and I understand the urge to slowplay here. And if there were multible people left to act behind you, I would like it a bit more. But here you are hoping for just one guy to bet, so I would prefer going for a small C-bet myself. You are probably going to get a lot of folds, but on a board like QQ6 you are not getting a ton of action later either, unless someone has the last Q or improve to a hand, that beat you. Like maybe someone has 22-55 and turn a boat, and now you just set yourself up to lose a big pot by letting them see the turn for free.

Turn
As played I would continue to just call. Even if the guy has 6X, which I think is kind of unlikely, he wont always call a raise now AND then also call a bet on the river, because its so obvious, that you most likely has a Q, when you take this kind of line. So you are mostly getting action, when you chop or run into quads, And by raising now you dont give him the chance to continue bluffing on the river. So I would check-call here again and pretend, I have a hand like AA or KK, which is pot controlling due to the paired board and might consider folding to a bit river bet.

Yes, I made a mistake preflop! It could even be an AJ throwaway. I posted this image in another thread, and one of my colleagues pointed out that I had been mismanaging my hand scales, because against a 3Bet Range, an AJ is much further behind than, say, an A5S, where there is a possibility of a straight or a flush.

The check-raise was a big mistake. In my opinion, it always indicates strong play, and I was overly afraid of the flush.