Solving 9 max turbo SnG

[domonicsi93]

I created this forum so that I can discuss questions that come up while playing my favorite format with players who also like playing this type of SNG. My experience is that games around the $10 BI level are still easily beatable, although of course it’s harder than it was 15 years ago. For analysis I use CardRunnersEV, Flopzilla, and ICMizer. I will continuously bring hands with questions from my hand history, and it would be great if more people joined and also shared their questionable hands.

 

[domonicsi93]

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 80/160 (20 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=425zD03gQ

UTG: 1,319 (8 bb)
MP: 1,292 (8 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 3,141 (20 bb)
CO: 911 (6 bb)
BU: 1,347 (8 bb)
SB: 2,276 (14 bb)
BB: 3,214 (20 bb)


Should i raise ? What is the best size of the raise? What sould i do if i get a 3-bet?

 

[SpanRmonka]

Personally I think the fold is fine, this is the sort of hand you can easily get shoved on my CO or B short stacks, and you wouldn't like calling with it necessarily.
Its borderline and if you think the BB is very tight, then maybe it can be a min raise type sizing.

 

[domonicsi93]

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 100/200 (25 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=425zD0oVN

UTG: 2,091 (10 bb)
MP: 4,219 (21 bb)
MP+1: 407 (2 bb)
CO: 2,369 (12 bb)
BU (Hero): 2,076 (10 bb)
SB: 606 (3 bb)
BB: 1,732 (9 bb)

Pre-Flop: (475) Hero is BTN with A♦ 8♣
4 players fold, Hero raises to 440, SB 3-bets to 581 (all-in), BB calls 381, Hero calls 141

Flop: (1,918) A♥ 9♦ 8♥ (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets 1,126 (all-in), Hero calls 1,126

The question is about preflop. The hand is interesting because the BB is a loose-passive player. Against TAG players I would definitely shove, but against this kind of LP player a smaller raise might also be an option, right? I obviously call the SB, but if the BB 3-bets, then he is most likely far ahead of my hand.

 

[domonicsi93]

Personally I think the fold is fine, this is the sort of hand you can easily get shoved on my CO or B short stacks, and you wouldn't like calling with it necessarily.
Its borderline and if you think the BB is very tight, then maybe it can be a min raise type sizing.

Thanks your answer, I agree with you

 

[domonicsi93]

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (4 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=525zDYGvW

UTG: 1,451 (48 bb)
UTG+1: 1,598 (53 bb)
MP: 1,421 (47 bb)
MP+1: 1,508 (50 bb)
LP (Hero): 1,421 (47 bb)
CO: 1,421 (47 bb)
BU: 1,488 (50 bb)
SB: 1,771 (59 bb)
BB: 1,421 (47 bb)

Pre-Flop: (81) Hero is LP with J♥ A♦
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to 60, MP calls 60, MP+1 calls 60, LP (Hero) folds, 2 players fold, SB calls 45, 1 fold

Flop: (306) 9♥ 4♣ 9♠ (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets 60, 3 players fold

My biggest problem with this hand is that the three players acting before me are very loose, so even a pot-sized raise might not necessarily force everyone out. Additionally, the opener’s range can also include strong hands. Taking all of this into consideration, is it worth making a pot-sized 3-bet that would commit more than 20% of my stack?

 

[fundiver199]

First of all you are paying 12% rake for this particular game on PokerStars. At the $10 level it drops to 10%, and at $25 it drops to 9%. This is quite a lot, so you might want to try to find another site to play 9-man SnGs. Or if you want to play on PokerStars, consider the 10-32 man On Demand games, which have significantly lower rake. With that out of the way lets look at the hands:

Hand 1 A7s
I would min-raise this hand, call off against a 3-bet from CO and BTN, but fold against SB and BB. Not opening a suited ace from HJ as one of the chip leaders is really tight. The one thing, that could perhaps make me consider a fold, is if BB is an extremely aggressive 3-bettor. But most players will mainly defend their big blind by calling, and then we just go from there.

Hand 2 A8o
I personally dont do anything other than open jamming, when I am less than 10BB effective. Maybe there is an argument for minraising, if BB is really bad and passive, but realistically how much are you going to outplay him, when pot is around 5,5BB, and he only has 7BB left? And I certainly dont like raise-folding for this stack size. That is just asking to be run over.

Hand 3 AJo
It feels really tight to fold AJo, but I actually kind of agree with your play. 3-betting an EP raise with AJo is kind of iffy in general, and with the two callers in between he is incentivized to 4-bet rather than just call. Of course you could also be the third guy to call, but then even more people will likely call behind, and playing AJo in a 5-way or 6-way pot is not something, I am particularly thrilled about either. So even if the two guys calling a fishy, I think, you can find better spots to get involved with them later.

 

[domonicsi93]

First of all you are paying 12% rake for this particular game on PokerStars. At the $10 level it drops to 10%, and at $25 it drops to 9%. This is quite a lot, so you might want to try to find another site to play 9-man SnGs. Or if you want to play on PokerStars, consider the 10-32 man On Demand games, which have significantly lower rake. With that out of the way lets look at the hands:

Hand 1 A7s
I would min-raise this hand, call off against a 3-bet from CO and BTN, but fold against SB and BB. Not opening a suited ace from HJ as one of the chip leaders is really tight. The one thing, that could perhaps make me consider a fold, is if BB is an extremely aggressive 3-bettor. But most players will mainly defend their big blind by calling, and then we just go from there.

Hand 2 A8o
I personally dont do anything other than open jamming, when I am less than 10BB effective. Maybe there is an argument for minraising, if BB is really bad and passive, but realistically how much are you going to outplay him, when pot is around 5,5BB, and he only has 7BB left? And I certainly dont like raise-folding for this stack size. That is just asking to be run over.

Hand 3 AJo
It feels really tight to fold AJo, but I actually kind of agree with your play. 3-betting an EP raise with AJo is kind of iffy in general, and with the two callers in between he is incentivized to 4-bet rather than just call. Of course you could also be the third guy to call, but then even more people will likely call behind, and playing AJo in a 5-way or 6-way pot is not something, I am particularly thrilled about either. So even if the two guys calling a fishy, I think, you can find better spots to get involved with them later.

I completely agree with your point about rake. I’m currently still learning the game, doing a lot of analysis, building decision trees, and looking for a community where I can continue to improve—hopefully I’ll find that here So even though my ROI is 6–8% at this stake plus rakeback, my main goal right now is gaining experience.

On the other hand, ACR could also be an option, but in my timezone there’s basically no traffic there, and even during the peak hours the SNG volume is still below PokerStars.

Thanks for your replies and your advice

 

[fundiver199]

If your main goal is learning, then why focus on becoming really good at a game, where the action is very capped, and that might eventually die out completely? GG Poker dont even offer any single table SnGs, and on PokerStars games above $10 only run during peak hours and even then not all that often.

MTTs are where, the main action is online these days, and playing the 10-32 man On Demand games gives more relevant MTT practice than playing 9-man SnGs, since ICM in the 32-mans is more similar to MTTs. Its also very easy to combine 32-mans with MTTs in the same session, since they go on the hourly break, and they are still fast enough games to allow basically the same sort of flexibility.

As for ACR I have played there a few times, but have come back to PokerStars. The main reason is the one, you mention, that there is no SnG activity during european daytime hours (only early morning and evening). Last time I played there was in the summer of 2025, and at that time I also found the games even more reg infested that those on PokerStars, plus I dont like their MTTs all that much.

There are also advantages of ACR though including their weekly SnG leaderboard and a better structure for the 8-man SnG, which start with 100BB. And they have regular speed games as well, which PokerStars have completely removed. So you could give it a try especially for the 8-man SnGs. If you think, there is not enough action, then combine 8-mans and On Demand SnGs.

 

[domonicsi93]

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 40/80 (10 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=825zF3WQ6

UTG: 1,400 (18 bb)
MP (Hero): 2,247 (28 bb)
MP+1: 1,850 (23 bb)
CO: 1,319 (16 bb)
BU: 3,572 (45 bb)
SB: 1,209 (15 bb)
BB: 1,903 (24 bb)

Pre-Flop: (190) Hero is MP with T♠ Q♠
UTG calls 80, MP (Hero) folds, 1 fold, CO raises to 1,309 (all-in), 4 players fold

Should I isolate fishy in this spot?

 

[domonicsi93]

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (15 ante) - 4 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=125zF5gIh

UTG: 4,401 (37 bb)
BU (Hero): 1,174 (10 bb)
SB: 6,445 (54 bb)
BB: 1,480 (12 bb)

Pre-Flop: (240) Hero is BTN with 6♠ A♠
1 fold, Hero raises to 1,159 (all-in), SB calls 1,099, 1 fold

As ICMizer it is a push.

Well, what I'm curious about is whether in this situation you always play a GTO shove on the bubble?"

 

[fundiver199]

QTs
Yes I would definitely isolate the limper. He (and most other players) are pretty short, so you dont want to go huge, but you can make it 3BB and get it heads-up a lot of the time. And if someone jam on you, you still have room to fold.

A6s
Yes I would definitely jam any suited ace here and in fact the entire "magic range" from the CC 30 day course. As the short stack you are selected to bust next, and if you dont take on this spot, you are going to be in the blinds again in just two hands. ICMizer can partly simulate the effect of that by turning on FGS (future game simulations).

With 4 players left ICMizer can take the next 3 hands into account, and if you do that the EV of jamming A6s rise from 0,20% of the price pool to 0,39% of the price pool, so a fairly substantial difference. Your numbers are different, because you are showing the $ amounts, which will be specific for this particular buyin.

In general we dont need to take on spots, that are very close, but giving up on a +0,2% of the price pool spot, when FGS mean, its actually at least twice that, would be a significant mistake. If you always do this, you are definitely being to passive and allowing yourself to blind away. If you fold hands like A6o, KTo or J8s, that are basically breakeven, thats fine though. We dont need to hit the NASH range 100%, which is not humanly possible in real time.

 

[domonicsi93]

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (4 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=825zF6eN8

UTG: 1,560 (52 bb)
UTG+1: 967 (32 bb)
MP: 1,473 (49 bb)
MP+1: 2,029 (68 bb)
LP: 121 (4 bb)
CO: 3,166 (106 bb)
BU: 1,438 (48 bb)
SB: 1,453 (48 bb)
BB (Hero): 1,293 (43 bb)

Pre-Flop: (81) Hero is BB with J♥ J♦
2 players fold, MP raises to 90, MP+1 calls 90, LP 3-bets to 117 (all-in), CO calls 117, 2 players fold, Hero 4-bets to 1,289 (all-in), MP calls 1,199, 2 players fold

Option A: Fold, That’s not acceptable
Option B: Call with set mining, if i get a 4-bet from the initial raiser i have to fold
Option C: Re-raise pot size, i think it is not enough, if i get a call pot will be so big, I am comitted.
Option D: Re-raise all-in.


I think at most only the first player will call after my jam. I set the short stack who is all-in to a 30% calling range. I have no info on the first player, so I set their opening range as follows: AA-88,AKs-AJs,KQs,AKo-AJo,KQo,[50]ATs,KJs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs[/50]. I think opener will only call with the following hands: AA-TT,AKs-AQs,AKo. According to my model, this play has a slightly positive expected value. I’d be interested to hear what line others would choose, what assumptions they would make, and whether they agree with my reasoning.

 

[fundiver199]

JJ hand

The jam from LP is not large enough to reopen the betting. For that to happen, he need to make a "legal raise", which is at least the same size as the previous bet or raise. The first (forced) bet is the posting of the big blind to 30, and then the first raise is to 90. So for the next raise (3-bet) to be legal and reopen the betting, it needs to be to at least 90+60=150.

However because LP does not have 150, he is allowed to jam for his 117, but he is not reopening the betting for the players, who already put in 90. With that being said there is a ton of dead money from the two field callers, that are not all-in, and I dont see any reason to let them realise their equity for cheap. So I would also jam here and be done with the hand.

 

[domonicsi93]

JJ hand

The jam from LP is not large enough to reopen the betting. For that to happen, he need to make a "legal raise", which is at least the same size as the previous bet or raise. The first (forced) bet is the posting of the big blind to 30, and then the first raise is to 90. So for the next raise (3-bet) to be legal and reopen the betting, it needs to be to at least 90+60=150.

However because LP does not have 150, he is allowed to jam for his 117, but he is not reopening the betting for the players, who already put in 90. With that being said there is a ton of dead money from the two field callers, that are not all-in, and I dont see any reason to let them realise their equity for cheap. So I would also jam here and be done with the hand.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[domonicsi93]

Should i squeeze at ealy stage of sng at these spots?

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (3 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=525zIeSsA

UTG: 1,494 (75 bb)
UTG+1: 654 (33 bb)
MP: 1,494 (75 bb)
MP+1: 1,494 (75 bb)
LP: 2,391 (120 bb)
CO: 1,484 (74 bb)
BU: 1,454 (73 bb)
SB: 1,541 (77 bb)
BB (Hero): 1,494 (75 bb)

Pre-Flop: (57) Hero is BB with T♠ K♠
5 players fold, CO raises to 60, 1 fold, SB calls 50, Hero calls 40

Flop: (207) K♦ J♠ A♥ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 68, SB calls 68, Hero calls 68

Turn: (411) 9♣ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

River: (411) 8♣ (3 players)
SB bets 127, BB (Hero) folds, CO folds




PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (3 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=225zIf1A7

UTG: 1,500 (75 bb)
UTG+1: 1,500 (75 bb)
MP: 1,500 (75 bb)
MP+1: 1,500 (75 bb)
LP: 1,500 (75 bb)
CO: 1,500 (75 bb)
BU: 1,500 (75 bb)
SB (Hero): 1,500 (75 bb)
BB: 1,500 (75 bb)

Pre-Flop: (57) Hero is SB with Q♠ K♠
2 players fold, MP raises to 40, 3 players fold, BTN calls 40, Hero 3-bets to 180, 2 players fold, BTN calls 140

Flop: (447) A♣ 5♥ 7♥ (2 players)
Hero bets 200, BTN calls 200

Turn: (847) 4♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 847, SB (Hero) folds


And mid stage:

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 25/50 (6 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=525zIfpvM

UTG: 1,304 (26 bb)
UTG+1: 1,716 (34 bb)
MP: 3,075 (62 bb)
MP+1: 1,303 (26 bb)
CO: 1,786 (36 bb)
BU: 1,539 (31 bb)
SB (Hero): 1,348 (27 bb)
BB: 1,429 (29 bb)

Pre-Flop: (123) Hero is SB with K♥ J♣
4 players fold, CO raises to 125, BTN calls 125, Hero 3-bets to 400, 3 players fold

 

[domonicsi93]

How should i play this hand pre and postflop?

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (4 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=225zIfa9y

UTG (Hero): 1,370 (46 bb)
UTG+1: 1,450 (48 bb)
MP: 2,567 (86 bb)
MP+1: 1,896 (63 bb)
CO: 1,390 (46 bb)
BU: 1,512 (50 bb)
SB: 971 (32 bb)
BB: 2,344 (78 bb)

Pre-Flop: (77) Hero is UTG with J♥ K♥
Hero raises to 75, 3 players fold, CO 3-bets to 210, 3 players fold, Hero calls 135

Flop: (497) 8♦ J♦ 9♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (497) 3♦ (2 players)
Hero bets 249, CO folds

 

[fundiver199]

KTs hand

Preflop
You could 3-bet (squeeze), but its not mandatory from BB. It would be nice to know something about CO, like how often they fold to 3-bets. I get that information from my HUD, and I would likely not 3-bet against an unknown CO.

Flop
You flopped second pair with a gutshot and BDFD, so for this price I think, its fine to overcall.

Turn
If you had faced a big bet, it would be time to bail, but it checks around.

River
Its kind of tempting to call for this price, but it is multiway, and you are not closing the action. So I am ok letting it go now.

KQs hand

Preflop
From SB I definitely prefer a 3-bet, sizing is good.

Flop
You kind of have to C-bet and try to take it down, but maybe you can size down a bit. I dont see many hands folding for 200, that would not also fold for 150-170.

Turn
You have no pair and no draw, so time to bail out.

KJo hand

It worked this time, but I dont like 3-betting small with this stack size out of position against two players. I think, both jamming and calling are better options, and you could even nit fold. Its not like, KJo is a monster, and you are out of position not closing the action.

KJs hand

Preflop
Standard open, and in GTO we are usually supposed to defend suited broadways to 3-bets. If we had HUD-stats telling us, CO is a tight player, we could just fold though. Unless we make two pair or better, we suffer from a lot of domination issues against a tight range. On JXX he has QQ-AA, on KXX he has AA, AK and KQs.

Flop
Pretty happy to see him check back.

Turn
Standard bet for value / protection, and not unhappy to get the fold.

 

[domonicsi93]

Should i jam at bubble with decent stack?

PokerStars, $4.40 + $0.60 - Hold'em No Limit - 100/200 (25 ante) - 4 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=225zIgPWV

UTG: 3,824 (19 bb)
BU (Hero): 3,145 (16 bb)
SB: 3,268 (16 bb)
BB: 3,263 (16 bb)

Pre-Flop: (400) Hero is BTN with Q♥ K♥
UTG raises to 400, BU (Hero) folds, 2 players fold

 

[fundiver199]

KQs hand

This is a mandatory rejam. That goes for the entire "magic range" mentioned in the CC 30-day course, which mean any suited ace, any suited broadway and any pair. Maybe you can choose to pass on the worst pairs like 22-44, but folding KQs is waaaaay to passive and leaving a lot of money on the table. Unless of course you have some kind of read, that the specific Villain is just never folding to 3-bets. But it would be rare to run into someone, who never fold to 3-bet on a SnG bubble, when you essentially threaten their stack.

 

[Noobgila]

I would call, if I got re-raised, I would call again, folding on the flop if its a weak flop for your hand is not going to be a huge loss, and if you hit a huge hand (like the nut flush) 2 pair, etc, the risk of 20% of your stack is worth it. Sometimes I would even call an all in, depending on the play style of the table.
Because the stack depth is so shallow, I don't see the value of jamming, no-one is folding a reasonable hand, I would even call a jam with 99 or AQ if I was BB.
However, currently I am not a profitable poker player, so any advice would be appreciated!

 

[fundiver199]

On the other hand, ACR could also be an option, but in my timezone there’s basically no traffic there, and even during the peak hours the SNG volume is still below PokerStars.

I actually played a bit on ACR for the past 10 days, and there is plenty of SnG volume during the peak hours, which is something like 6pm CET to 7am CET. Or at least there is enough to fill a session, unless you want to mass multitable. However most of the volume is in On Demand games, whereas it has become difficult to get action in the single table formats, especially above $6. So you kind of have to play the On Demand games. But at least these give dubble points for the SnG leaderboard. So its pretty easy to get back $50 every week, which is basically 100% rakeback.