Playing the Small Blind (Day 19 Course Discussion)

Andrew Popov · Jun 25, 2020

Perhaps (9 minutes of video), a 20BB bluff from 22 after limping was too risky. However, we do not have statistics on a player with BB, perhaps an aggressive re-raise pre-flop was his usual game ...

Katie Dozier · Jun 26, 2020

johnnylawford said:
How do you feel about all-in ranges from the small blind? It seems like when you're playing a short stack game you should have a particularly wide all-in range when you're under 15bb. This is particularly important in combination with the ICM section if you can apply pressure on a shorter stack close to the bubble.

Yes, we can profitably shove a very wide range though I generally prefer making exploitative adjustments to the the player in the big bling unless there is a reg/good player sitting there.

makisaa · Jun 26, 2020

It is from the most difficult positions to play, but this difficulty can be used to make us profit, because many strong hands can be hidden to this position!

BentleyBoy · Jun 28, 2020

Hi guys. A great video and I love Katie’s imagery about how to remember which hands to play in SB. Pretty hands. Now that I can easily remember and also have the image of the hands in my head so will see how we go from here.

The hand Example of 22 in the SB coming up against 99 when all in is a really good example of how just because you do the correct move doesn’t always mean you will win, but emphasises how important the correct play is.

Thanks guys.

BB

Katie Dozier · Jun 30, 2020

BentleyBoy said:
Hi guys. A great video and I love Katie’s imagery about how to remember which hands to play in SB. Pretty hands. Now that I can easily remember and also have the image of the hands in my head so will see how we go from here.

The hand Example of 22 in the SB coming up against 99 when all in is a really good example of how just because you do the correct move doesn’t always mean you will win, but emphasises how important the correct play is.

Thanks guys.

BB

Thanks, BB and glad to hear you liked the imagery! I will think of you saying that the next time I open a pretty hand in the SB!

Debi · Jul 19, 2020

BentleyBoy said:
Hi guys. A great video and I love Katie’s imagery about how to remember which hands to play in SB. Pretty hands. Now that I can easily remember and also have the image of the hands in my head so will see how we go from here.

The hand Example of 22 in the SB coming up against 99 when all in is a really good example of how just because you do the correct move doesn’t always mean you will win, but emphasises how important the correct play is.

Thanks guys.

BB

Agree that was very helpful!

lollipopas · Jul 31, 2020

What would be a range for calling if BB raises after SB limps (blind versus blind)? And alternatively for 4betting/shoving?

Re: post flop play and bluffing in favorable multiway pots - what would be a good place to bluff? Low cards rainbow flop?

Lugubrious · Jul 31, 2020

i love the SB

that's where I make the most money. I'm going to give you a trick that I use because if you've made it this far you deserve to get secrets that no one else is willing to reveal. From the Sb blind you should flat alot against LP openers and lead flop I guarantee you will be thanking me in the future now let's continue to crush

Collin Moshman · Aug 1, 2020

lollipopas said:
What would be a range for calling if BB raises after SB limps (blind versus blind)? And alternatively for 4betting/shoving?

Re: post flop play and bluffing in favorable multiway pots - what would be a good place to bluff? Low cards rainbow flop?

Nice questions. It depends a lot on stack depth and what you know about your opponent.

For example, at 25bb, I'd jam a lot as the small blind facing an aggro player in the BB raising. Hands like A2o, 33, and even JTo I'd often shove here. If stacks are deeper, then assuming you face a raise to around 3.5bb and there's an ante, then 3-bet with a fairly tight range and call down to hands like: A2o, 64s, and K4s.

For post-flop, do you mean if you're the small blind and have called a big blind raise pre-flop? If so, I would usually be checking most of my range at the flop. But generally dry flops are great for bluffing post-flop if you have the betting lead.

Lugubrious said:
that's where I make the most money. I'm going to give you a trick that I use because if you've made it this far you deserve to get secrets that no one else is willing to reveal. From the Sb blind you should flat alot against LP openers and lead flop I guarantee you will be thanking me in the future now let's continue to crush

Great tip, will give it a try!

lollipopas · Aug 1, 2020

Collin Moshman said:
For post-flop, do you mean if you're the small blind and have called a big blind raise pre-flop? If so, I would usually be checking most of my range at the flop. But generally dry flops are great for bluffing post-flop if you have the betting lead.

I meant, from the video, there was a point about bluffing post flop in multiway pots with favorable boards. I assume the situation is if several people limped in (or say there was a raise and calls and SB filled in because the pot odds were good?). So then good flop to bluff for SB would be something with no high cards, rainbow?

fundiver199 · Aug 2, 2020

lollipopas said:
I meant, from the video, there was a point about bluffing post flop in multiway pots with favorable boards. I assume the situation is if several people limped in (or say there was a raise and calls and SB filled in because the pot odds were good?). So then good flop to bluff for SB would be something with no high cards, rainbow?

Multiway you should pretty much never bet the flop without some sort of decent made hand or draw. Especially not if you are first to act. There are just to many players, who might have connected with the board somehow, or who just dont want to fold. If its a limped pot, and you completed from SB, you got a very good price to see a flop. But you completely throw that away, if you start spewing chips postflop by making random bluffs into multible opponents. If you missed, then just get out cheap and move on to the next hand.

Collin Moshman · Aug 3, 2020

lollipopas said:
I meant, from the video, there was a point about bluffing post flop in multiway pots with favorable boards. I assume the situation is if several people limped in (or say there was a raise and calls and SB filled in because the pot odds were good?). So then good flop to bluff for SB would be something with no high cards, rainbow?

I'll have to check back and listen to the comment, not sure what I said now

Generally I agree with Fundiver's comment. If you complete the SB and miss in a multi-way pot, I would definitely just check/fold most of the time. We're assuming no draw of course -- if you flop even a gutshot then betting becomes a lot more reasonable depending on flop and number of players.

But if you completely miss the flop and it gets checked through, I would bluff the turn sometimes with a low uncoordinated flop and a blank turn.

For example:

Pre-Flop: Button limps, Hero completes SB, button checks.

Flop: 8 5 2 Rainbow

Checked Around

Turn: 5

This is a decent spot to bet total air like 73 since we can easily rep a hand and it's unlikely anybody else has anything. If the pot is ~ 4bb with an ante, then a bet of 2bb has a solid risk-reward here given the added info of both opponents checking the flop.

nwhitney118 · Aug 9, 2020

Hi guys, really helpful lesson given the small blind is arguably the trickiest position to play out of. One thing that wasn't mentioned was 3 betting with speculative hands such as weaker Axs and suited connectors. I've seen quite a few people advocate for playing them this way in the small blind, but after doing so in SnGs I feel like it's a bit of a chip burner especially in the mid stages with stack sizes getting to the 25-40bb range. Is it better to flat and then use the chips not used pre flop to semibluff a draw if it comes on the flop?

Katie Dozier · Aug 9, 2020

nwhitney118 said:
Hi guys, really helpful lesson given the small blind is arguably the trickiest position to play out of. One thing that wasn't mentioned was 3 betting with speculative hands such as weaker Axs and suited connectors. I've seen quite a few people advocate for playing them this way in the small blind, but after doing so in SnGs I feel like it's a bit of a chip burner especially in the mid stages with stack sizes getting to the 25-40bb range. Is it better to flat and then use the chips not used pre flop to semibluff a draw if it comes on the flop?

I totally agree about the SB being ultimately the trickiest position to play out of, and that’s why I generally dislike 3-betting suited connectors and weaker aces from the SB at the stack depth you describe. I think the best course is discard hands that have poor reverse implied odds based on the action (weaker aces as a common example) as well as hands that don’t have good enough implied odds (such as weaker suited connectors with an effective stack of around 30 bbs).

Of course when we get under the bb range that you brought up of 25-40bbs we’ll have quite a lot of profitable 3-bet shove spots versus late position opens; including some of the hands that we should simply fold to an open at a deeper stack depth. [emoji4]

samsonand · Aug 9, 2020

La verdad es una información excelente, espero algún día mejorar estos conocimientos y gracias por su publicación, es de gran valor

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fundiver199 · Aug 9, 2020

Katie Dozier said:
I think the best course is discard hands that have poor reverse implied odds based on the action (weaker aces as a common example) as well as hands that don’t have good enough implied odds (such as weaker suited connectors with an effective stack of around 30 bbs).

Good point Katie. Often people tend to feel, that hands like suited aces or suited connectors are "to pretty to fold", but when we are in SB seat and especially facing an EP open with those middling stacks, often its best to just get out and wait for the next hand to be dealt. Its rarely a big mistake to be a little snug from SB

Good Man · Oct 19, 2020

The small blind is a very difficult position to play, so I should try to avoid playing too many hands while in this position. Stakes from this position will often cause me more problems than profit, so I will try not to do this if I don't have a hand with good potential.

The small blind is the worst position to be in, so I shouldn't expect much from my hand, as all of our opponents will always have the advantage of the position over me. I try not to feel tied to the pot just because half of the big blind is already in the pot. I will save money on the distance if you fold marginal hands more often instead of calling them.
And Yes you have a funny laugh:laugh::laugh:

Life is a game , play beautiful

carmenzu · Nov 12, 2020

I almost always fold the small blind, unless they are good cards, this chapter makes me think about it.
I will try to play the sb more often

Phyrrura · Nov 25, 2020

The more I play, more I accept the power of limping in the right spot, and Katie and Collin just gave an excellent example of strong plays you can do by limping.
Thank you for this course CC!

Katie Dozier · Dec 1, 2020

Phyrrura said:
The more I play, more I accept the power of limping in the right spot, and Katie and Collin just gave an excellent example of strong plays you can do by limping.
Thank you for this course CC!

So glad that you’re enjoying it, Phyrrura!

monkey23 · Dec 1, 2020

if it is folded to you in the small blind, and you have a healthy stack....and the bb isnt a maniac...you should generally raise wide.
any suited connectors...anf connectors over 78...any ace...any sooted 2 gappers over 58...K7+...Q8+...any 2 broadway cards of course...

its a great spot to balance your ranges too...make unusual plays.

if it is bet you you in the sb...thats a different ball game...pot odds...implied odds...how many in the multi way pot..does the button bet into you every time..??

suited connectors and small pocket pairs should not be over valued,,,set mining can be cool...depending on the expense...

suited connectors play best in late positions...certainly not the sb.

monkey23 · Dec 1, 2020

PsychoVas said:
In my experience, completing the blind is proven to be a leak. Probably that is because I tend to check-call too much after flop. To be honest I would have mucked the 64o and let Babe take it, instead trying to squeeze some pork cho(i)ps from the poor creature.

yup...playing a weak holding post flop is never fun...especially from the sb...unless you hit...gotta know when to foldem.

Collin Moshman · Dec 2, 2020

monkey23 said:
if it is folded to you in the small blind, and you have a healthy stack....and the bb isnt a maniac...you should generally raise wide.
any suited connectors...anf connectors over 78...any ace...any sooted 2 gappers over 58...K7+...Q8+...any 2 broadway cards of course...

its a great spot to balance your ranges too...make unusual plays.

if it is bet you you in the sb...thats a different ball game...pot odds...implied odds...how many in the multi way pot..does the button bet into you every time..??

suited connectors and small pocket pairs should not be over valued,,,set mining can be cool...depending on the expense...

suited connectors play best in late positions...certainly not the sb.

I agree that you should play a wide range in the small blind in unraised pots, but consider limping a lot of these hands instead of raising unless the big blind is tight-passive.

When there's a previous raise, you're right that it's very different and you should tighten up quite a bit relative to the unraised situation. For example, if the button raises and you have 65s, I would usually just be folding. But if it were folded to us, we would almost always play that hand.

If you want to look at any specific small blind hands/situations, feel free to post them here.

monkey23 · Dec 4, 2020

Collin Moshman said:
I agree that you should play a wide range in the small blind in unraised pots, but consider limping a lot of these hands instead of raising unless the big blind is tight-passive.

When there's a previous raise, you're right that it's very different and you should tighten up quite a bit relative to the unraised situation. For example, if the button raises and you have 65s, I would usually just be folding. But if it were folded to us, we would almost always play that hand.

If you want to look at any specific small blind hands/situations, feel free to post them here.

many thanks for writing back Collin...

specific hands / situations...?? i think sb play generally isn't so much about specific hands...rather...situations...player behaviour.

One's own holding ( any two) isn't as important as how you think your opponent will (generally) react to your own action according to their previous behaviour patterns.

sure...an open from early position has to be treated very differently to a lead out bet from the button. How often does the button bet when the action is folded to them? What is their fold to a 3-bet frequency??

I play 100/200 and 200/400 nlhe...both 9 and 6 handed...
unless there is a maniac at the table...rare...very often at 6 handed, the button gets a free shot at the blinds. Not so often obviously in 9 handed. Often 6 handed, it is the general 'mood' of the table for the button to bet at the blinds. A 3-bet will quite often scare off the bb, and the button will fold their junk. Sometimes it doesnt work all the time of course..lol.

It boils down to presumed fold percentages...and of course one's own table image...which one has carefully created over the course of time...both at the present table, and in the past...especially if one is playing regs.

Mixing one's own behaviour / actions / range is of course wise...be unpredictable.

monkey23 · Dec 4, 2020

Collin Moshman said:
I agree that you should play a wide range in the small blind in unraised pots, but consider limping a lot of these hands instead of raising unless the big blind is tight-passive.
.

playing just sb vs bb is a different ball game.

with a speculative holding, i agree of course...its good to limp sometimes...get a reaction from the bb...cheaply...and react accordingly, according to both the bb's style, AND one's own holding.

how the bb reacts to one's limp will also give range info as to how to play post flop, and maximise one's chances of outplaying the bb o.o.p. if one doesn't hit the flop.

Playing the Small Blind (Day 19 Course Discussion)

Andrew Popov

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Katie Dozier

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makisaa

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BentleyBoy

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Katie Dozier

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Debi

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lollipopas

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Lugubrious

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Collin Moshman

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lollipopas

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fundiver199

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Collin Moshman

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nwhitney118

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Katie Dozier

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samsonand

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fundiver199

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Good Man

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carmenzu

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Phyrrura

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Katie Dozier

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monkey23

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Collin Moshman

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monkey23

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