Raise with K-rag instead of A-rag because there are more A in villian's calling range

When I'm in middle-late position and everyone foled before me/ there's only one limper I like to raise with A rag in order to steal the pot; if they call I can usually take it down with a c-bet; I have a tight image so it is a profitable move I believe. However, a player said to me that it would be better to raise K rag instead, since if a player is going to call me hand they are much more likely to be holding a ace; think about it, they are many more aces in a calling range than K( AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, depends on the player of course, I play at low stackes/pub games/free rolls so many players call MUCH looser, but there is still many more aces in the range, I think anyway)

If it is better to raise with K rag how should I play ace rag in such a situation?Should I fold it, or maybe call?

I would still say raise if you're the one to open the pot.
Depending on your position, of course.
But if you have A5 for example and there comes an A on the flop, then you have to look at the other two cards, your opponents style, and what chances there is for him to have an A with a better kicker.
Example: (if you go to showdown with slow play because of the bad kicker)
You: A5
flop: 6A8
Turn: Q
River: 2

Now you have to think: How big is the chance that he got Ax, where x is 6 or above.
So I would say you should raise it and see what the chances are on the flop and maybe all the way to showdown.

i take it one step further and only raise complete junk like 23 off and 49 off.. not many people will call with those cards...

WiZZiM said:

i take it one step further and only raise complete junk like 23 off and 49 off.. not many people will call with those cards...

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That is true. But what if you hit with 49, you hit the 9 on a flop that has: K97
What's your next move then?

Niantic said:

That is true. But what if you hit with 49, you hit the 9 on a flop that has: K97
What's your next move then?

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Shove for fold equity, imo.

I'm always skeptical about this I mean so many times I have middle pair and wanna shove.. but say if I raise and then they call then what? they could have nothing aswell right. I dunno I guess it comes with experience I shove late game when its 6 handed or less alot easier on middle pair and it works a treat but early on I just think its a recipe for disaster no? I dunno lol

WiZZiM said:

i take it one step further and only raise complete junk like 23 off and 49 off.. not many people will call with those cards...

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+1

(Please note the sarcasm in his post)

The thing is with shoving mid-pair your opponents, assuming they are half good players, wil only call you when you are bet; I think it's the gap concept, so you are essentially making your opponent fold the hands that you beat, and only call your hand when you are beaten; so you are kind of turning your hand into a bluff. So I don't think that shoving mid pair is a good play; I guess it is a good move if you are short stacked and stealing the pot will help your tack a fair bit, but if you were that short perhaps you should have shoved preflop anyway.

Second thoughts, there would be value t shoving mid-pair, since the players that you beat will fold; if you checked/raised and they saw the turn they might hit there card and have the best hand; so, what do you do, raise on the flop and if they reraise/raise the turn fold? If you get in the habit of doing that your opponents will take advantage of that play, so perhaps shoving is the best play so that you cannot be bluffed of the best hand, or let your opponent hit one of their cards. I'm really not sure myself; your opponents will only hit 1/10 times though so it might be best to call their turn raise, but that is of course assuming they didn't have you beat on the flop

oh dear lol

i think raising with k rag is a decent play but in my opinion it all depends on the player...tight player that limps has to be holding some hand worth value that will not fold to raise but likely will fold if he doesnt hit at all. Loose players can get u in trouble for it would be tough to minimize there ranges for they call with basically any cards

According to me, A rag is much better and has lot of odds than K rag...
And ur post flop action should also be dependent upon ur stack size too other than ur table image...
I agree with wat u said that the caller to ur bet will most probably holding A rag, but wats concerned to me is, how many times out of 10 do u think K rag will defeat A rag?And how much successful will be ur post flop action to C-bet and take down the pot with K rag , knowing that the villian has A rag? I prefer stealing with Ace in my hand rather than King or Queen...

can someone shoot me plz?

WiZZiM said:

i take it one step further and only raise complete junk like 23 off and 49 off.. not many people will call with those cards...

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Just go with 7/2 off because no one in their right mind would call a raise with that!

LMAO.

why raise with Ax or Kx when you can raise or even re raise with a slow burner like 36os, or maybe 82os, dontcha think the A or K are just too obvious??????????????

and the 27 is a good idea too, get away from this old school poker tradition...... new blood dudes, from rags to riches....lol

Cant wait till we play together...... I will learn much..................


L(earn)

atlantafalcons0 said:

Just go with 7/2 off because no one in their right mind would call a raise with that!

LMAO.

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I would reraise 2-7

Wes747 said:

+1

(Please note the sarcasm in his post)

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much too late 4 that......

I hear all this talk of A rag. Dont you use a rag to polish your car????
And what do you use K rag for???? Is that just a cheaper brand of A rag?

Hmm, I am confused......................

Yea, we might as well just start folding aces and kings preflop because WAY too many people play those cards.....

I like my J-rag the best!

Doesn't matter!Raise with A rag or K rag then whether a K hits or an A hit or not, and whether and u got it or not c- bet neway! At least you'll see where you're at...Remember people might call with anything for many reasons(boredom, alluring suited cards like QT...) so assume they had the A when the K hit and they had the K when the A hit. Simple.
You get called either you try it again or check if you have a read, you get reraised you fold, they fold...Great for you !

atlantafalcons0 said:

Yea, we might as well just start folding aces and kings preflop because WAY too many people play those cards.....

I like my J-rag the best!

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Dude!!!! Youve GOT IT!!!!!!!!! SOOOOOOO old school to raise AA or KK, anyone can do that. Show you REALLY understand how to finesse and throw that obvious stuff away, only pussys play those strong starters these days anyway...... And do you mind if I adopt your J rag theory? Sounds really promising...............

fletchdad said:

Dude!!!! Youve GOT IT!!!!!!!!! SOOOOOOO old school to raise AA or KK, anyone can do that. Show you REALLY understand how to finesse and throw that obvious stuff away, only pussys play those strong starters these days anyway...... And do you mind if I adopt your J rag theory? Sounds really promising...............

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No, I knew it would catch on eventually. It's just a matter of time before my J rag theory becomes well known and widely used.

You don't even know how many pots I've won with jack two off.

it can be called the J low hand for those that like big bottoms.
I like the jack two off, anymore and it gets too crowded.

According to me, A rag is much better and has lot of odds than K rag...
And ur post flop action should also be dependent upon ur stack size too other than ur table image...
I agree with wat u said that the caller to ur bet will most probably holding A rag, but wats concerned to me is, how many times out of 10 do u think K rag will defeat A rag?And how much successful will be ur post flop action to C-bet and take down the pot with K rag , knowing that the villian has A rag? I prefer stealing with Ace in my hand rather than King or Queen...
________________

K-rag rarely beats A-rag, but K-rag will rarely go to a showdown with A-rag in this scenario; the K-rag will probably only go to a show down if I actually hit the K. It's just when I get played back at and I've hit my A I never quite know what to do, since they are SO many hands in my opponents calling range that have better A, whereas with a K I can be more confident I have the best hand, I just have to pray a A doesn't come on the turn/river

Ok then, so, a seperate question that may help answer this one: What would be better to go all-in on when sort stacked(7BB for example) K2 or A2. It might seem like an obvious A2, because they beats most hands, but does it beat most all-in calling hands? People will call an all-in shove with A7,A8,A9,A10,AJ,AQ,AK,KJ,KQ, 55,66,77,88,99,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA,QJs

I hope I don't have to explain some of the math behind that, but I think that it is obvious that K2 does better against that range. Hey, isn't there a program that figures out that stuff? I think it's called Poker Stove


By the way, I'm a little disappointed from some of the responses, you guys are, I think, laughing at my "apparently" stupid question, but did you guys once even consider what I said, or did you guys simply thought, "this guy is a fish what a stupid question of course A-rag is better than K-rag" Oh and sorry about my previous post, I was half asleep

Yea, ace 2 is better than king 2.

Ace 2 can make a straight using only three cards.

YAY!

Wai..... what? Raise with K rag because someone might call you with A rag?...... is that what I just read?