Raise with K-rag instead of A-rag because there are more A in villian's calling range

[c9h13no3]

You know, I think this thread has a decent point.

Lots of players calling ranges in tournaments look something like Ax, 22+, KQ. And by selecting a hand that isn't dominated by that range, we gain some equity:

Hand 0: 56.787% { 22+, A2s+, KQs, A2o+, KQo }
Hand 1: 43.213% { JTs }

Hand 0: 61.322% { 22+, A2s+, KQs, A2o+, KQo }
Hand 1: 38.678% { A2s }

However, I still think its a bad idea, because the Ax hands give us blockers to a ton of the hands they call with. So we'll actually get called less often. I could work out the math, but I'm pretty sure shoving the Ax hands is still better. But I think the guy in the opening post has a decent point that none of you guys are even considering.

 

[WiZZiM]

i didnt realise he was talking about shoving... i thought he meant just raising.. like in a deep stacked tournament.. i was thinking id much rather raise 45s than kx.. umm yes, i gues you have a point.. again though, kx is more likely to be dominated by big broadway cards. so using the same logic. wouldnt shoving 78s be better?

 

[WiZZiM]

yeah, nowhere in OP mentions anything specific to shoving..

 

[volpereira]

I don't like the Kx raises.

The Ax is good when U don't hit the ace.

 

[tomh7795]

You know, I think this thread has a decent point.

Lots of players calling ranges in tournaments look something like Ax, 22+, KQ. And by selecting a hand that isn't dominated by that range, we gain some equity:

Hand 0: 56.787% { 22+, A2s+, KQs, A2o+, KQo }
Hand 1: 43.213% { JTs }

Hand 0: 61.322% { 22+, A2s+, KQs, A2o+, KQo }
Hand 1: 38.678% { A2s }

However, I still think its a bad idea, because the Ax hands give us blockers to a ton of the hands they call with. So we'll actually get called less often. I could work out the math, but I'm pretty sure shoving the Ax hands is still better. But I think the guy in the opening post has a decent point that none of you guys are even considering.

you do j10s vs A2 then you see that it's pretty much a coin flip.

I would rather go all in with j10s then a2.

 

[fletchdad]

You know, I think this thread has a decent point.

Lots of players calling ranges in tournaments look something like Ax, 22+, KQ. And by selecting a hand that isn't dominated by that range, we gain some equity:

Hand 0: 56.787% { 22+, A2s+, KQs, A2o+, KQo }
Hand 1: 43.213% { JTs }

Hand 0: 61.322% { 22+, A2s+, KQs, A2o+, KQo }
Hand 1: 38.678% { A2s }

However, I still think its a bad idea, because the Ax hands give us blockers to a ton of the hands they call with. So we'll actually get called less often. I could work out the math, but I'm pretty sure shoving the Ax hands is still better. But I think the guy in the opening post has a decent point that none of you guys are even considering.

I guess some of us (like me) did get off a bit too much on our own sarcasm. Most posts here should be given respect in that they are sincere questions, and if every poster knew everything, we wouldnt need this forum. Point well made and taken. It does get difficult to keep the tongue out of the cheek on many posts, but thank you for cautioning on the side of respect, certainly never a bad idea.

 

[tomh7795]

i think he asked a very good question. If you have A10 vs A4 the A4 will lose 70% of the time. Now lets say it's Ace 10 vs K4 the K4 will lose only 65% of the time. Rag aces or kings are bad to go all in because a lot of your opponents range has your hand dominated. Lets for example say we're in the sb with 8 bb and we have a2. It's folded around to us and we push here unless our opponent calls us 100% of the time. A2 is only 55% favourite over our opponents "any 2" range. Lets say we have k9. We're a 60% over a ramdom hand. Try to stay away from rag aces or kings if it's in our opponents range. I would probably still push with both hands but weaker hands have more equity then stronger hands.

You do a2 vs k9 and the A2 is a 58% favourite.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

So I should stop raising ace five suited otb and stop folding K2 in mp?

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

i raise with garbage all day long

 

[suraj128]

Dont think it really matters, if you have a tight image and your gonna c-bet no matter what, your cards really dont matter. Key is letting it go if your opponenent sticks around.

 

[pat3392]

Ok, I need to be clearer; I mentioned shoving because I thought that may be easier to think about and make you guys take my original question a little more seriously, I did actually mean just a normal raise.

Allow me to add more information to the question:

Ok, let's say you play at a venue where the players like to raise to smallish amount, like 2-3BB preflop and a little under half the pot post-flop, whereas you like to raise 5BB+1 for every limper and raise pot post flop; throughout the tournament the players are relatively short stacked so this player is quite scary; he plays relatively tight, at least compared to the rest of the players at this leagues standards. Because he raises so much the players don't call him lightly, typically only with good hands; because of there tight calling range, would K-rag play better post-flop then A-rag, due to the fact that the players won't call such a preflop raise with many K, but would with many A?


I think the only way I can truly answer this question is to go through all the scenarios of what may happen; this would probably take many hours though; I guess I need to start of with working out this combinatronics stuff and the concept of blocking cards and it's impact on my opponents hands, if that makes sense

 

[playerk7]

if you riase in postition you can raise with anything it it be a good raise, you just haave to no how your opponent is plaing and if you can steal the blinds or the pot post flop. if you cant then fold, if you can then id think about trying to make a move thier for a couple extra chips

 

[Poker Orifice]

i didnt realise he was talking about shoving... i thought he meant just raising.. like in a deep stacked tournament.. i was thinking id much rather raise 45s than kx.. umm yes, i gues you have a point.. again though, kx is more likely to be dominated by big broadway cards. so using the same logic. wouldnt shoving 78s be better?

Yes!

 

[silverslugger33]

Makes sense if you're getting low and looking to have a couple live cards. With that said, I would say that in general you don't really want to play either of them. A rag and K rag can both be easily cracked.