The Power of Position (Day 1 Course Discussion)

[messats]

playing position in poker

when it comes to controlling game play it is better to play mediocre hands when in position. the advantages are to be able to catch bluffs more often and control the speed of the game

 

[mroakley1]

You want to have position over aggressive opponents, but post-flop you would rather be to the right of a player driving the betting multiway than to the left. The reason is that you can see how the other players react to his aggression before you act.



You know what that means: Now you have to share the book with your whole office


Enjoy the course!

No way this has to be kept top secret

 

[dartwind]

You want to have position over aggressive opponents, but post-flop you would rather be to the right of a player driving the betting multiway than to the left. The reason is that you can see how the other players react to his aggression before you act.

Thank you for your answer but I need more information please. I'm sorry, I would let this go but new players will think they are in a good position, sometimes, when seated to the right of a "very aggressive player" if I don't.

What would most likely happen?

Let's go through the action. So, the overly aggressive player is to your left. You know this player is playing with a large range of mostly marginal hands so you check a big hand preflop letting them raise. They do and one player acting before you calls, you know this is a good player, and you call.


The flop gives you two pair but there is a possible strait out there. You check, knowing the aggressive player will bet. They do, and then the player acting before you bet's big, pot committed big, and now you will have to fold because you are still out of position and you are probably beat. The aggressive player folds.



The winner of the pot shows rags. (This is for dramatic effect. A good player would never show in this situation.)



I've seen, and been in, these positions thousands of times. But you are right, you did "see how the other players react to his aggression before you act".


Rebuttal?

 

[Collin Moshman]

Dartwind, in your example, you still gain valuable information even if you end up making the wrong play against your opponent's actual hand. On balance this information will benefit you even if you end up making a mistake in specific instances.

I do like the drama of your example though!

 

[heguli82]

Power of position

is in the information what it gives to you when act. Information (position act) allows you to make more accurate assumptions about other hidden information e.g. hand strengths and its potential, opponent's way of playing, unorthodox changes in your own way of playing, etc., and thus strive for the best possible solution. Etc.


Understanding position means understanding the technical part of poker,of course there is lot more into it, but this is important especially if taking poker more seriously. Average player,or lets say that you just want to play; then, i think, you don`t need this kind of depth knowledge of position, couple other basic is enough to keep you in to game.

 

[Pichman189]

Thank you for such a detailed and interesting tutorial. The position is very important and depending on it we will act differently. I always wanted a weak player to be before me, and a strong regular after me, but this is not always the case.

 

[Katie Dozier]

Thank you for such a detailed and interesting tutorial. The position is very important and depending on it we will act differently. I always wanted a weak player to be before me, and a strong regular after me, but this is not always the case.

We’re so glad that you’ve taken such value from this first section and hope you enjoy the rest of the course as well

 

[Pichman189]

We’re so glad that you’ve taken such value from this first section and hope you enjoy the rest of the course as well

Thanks! This is my first serious poker course that I want to complete. I have been playing poker for 10 years, but I more practic and now I need to up my skill and really want to start beating micro-limits with the help of your course.

 

[Pichman189]

In the book it says "Bonus Concept: You can have good “relative position” if you’re to the right of a very aggressive player in a multi-way pot."


Is this right? I always want to be to the left of an aggressive player to be in position to get more information on them. If they always raise your bets after you play it will be a hard game to win.

You need to be on the right, because when the maniac raises, you are in last position preflop and you close the circle. I'm thinking about this in more detail in the following lessons, am I right?

 

[Collin Moshman]

You need to be on the right, because when the maniac raises, you are in last position preflop and you close the circle. I'm thinking about this in more detail in the following lessons, am I right?

We talk mainly about normal position (absolute position) in the course but relative position comes up as well. Good luck on the upcoming days!

 

[Pichman189]

We talk mainly about normal position (absolute position) in the course but relative position comes up as well. Good luck on the upcoming days!

Thank you very much!
Today I almost win tournament (my place-2), but dont have a lot of experience in Heads up, and loose my 1st place( when all in (it was 46 blind level)
By the way, your advices are working, and now I play only aggresive poker with many hands.

Unfortunately, I more often play 6 max shorttable poker. Must I play 6 table poker more aggresive then 9 table poker?

 

[Katie Dozier]

Thank you very much!
Today I almost win tournament (my place-2), but dont have a lot of experience in Heads up, and loose my 1st place( when all in (it was 46 blind level)
By the way, your advices are working, and now I play only aggresive poker with many hands.

Unfortunately, I more often play 6 max shorttable poker. Must I play 6 table poker more aggresive then 9 table poker?

Thanks and congrats on the deep tournament run!

As we talk about in the course, always keep in mind your true position (such as Hijack or lo-jack) which applies regardless of how many players are at the table and even in terms of formats that limit the table size like 6-max. You should have looser stats in a 6-max than 9-max because it will more frequently be folded to you (overall) than in 9-max which will give you the ability to open the action. Because you’ll have more opportunities to open the action, that will tend to mean you’ll have looser stats. However, we should be playing just as aggressively in both formats. Hope that helps

 

[Pichman189]

Thanks and congrats on the deep tournament run!

As we talk about in the course, always keep in mind your true position (such as Hijack or lo-jack) which applies regardless of how many players are at the table and even in terms of formats that limit the table size like 6-max. You should have looser stats in a 6-max than 9-max because it will more frequently be folded to you (overall) than in 9-max which will give you the ability to open the action. Because you’ll have more opportunities to open the action, that will tend to mean you’ll have looser stats. However, we should be playing just as aggressively in both formats. Hope that helps

Thanks for the congratulation. Yes, your advices helps. An aggressive style of play makes the opponent's desicions very difficult and it is more difficult for him to play with us. I would like to ask about the continuation bet. for example I have 2 kings flop 2 aces and ten. I bet half the pot and he calls. the turn is ten. would I better check or half the pot in this situation? and if he goes all in me fold?

 

[Zeke67]

Position always plays a role

Position is very important in every decision to be made at a poker table. At some points position could be more valuable than the cards and just as important. I have tried over and over to stress the importance of position in her card playing decisions and she just doesn’t get how important it is. But, I keep trying.

Stay safe,

Z

 

[Collin Moshman]

Thanks for the congratulation. Yes, your advices helps. An aggressive style of play makes the opponent's desicions very difficult and it is more difficult for him to play with us. I would like to ask about the continuation bet. for example I have 2 kings flop 2 aces and ten. I bet half the pot and he calls. the turn is ten. would I better check or half the pot in this situation? and if he goes all in me fold?

Checking is better here. This is a way-ahead-way-behind spot where you either have by far the best hand or by far the worst. So you would usually check-call to allow him to bet worse hands, or just check-fold against a more passive opponent.

 

[Daddysprincess99]

Just finished the first video and read Day 1 section in Ebook. NOT boring at all! I have a short attention span and most poker tutorial looses me halfway through. Collin and Katie's banter in the video is fun and keeps things lively. The concept is well elaborated on and laid out in Ebook without being long winded.

I once tried describing the importance of position in poker to someone and it was a complete disaster unless you count turning people off from playing altogether and thinning the field as a strategy lol. I'll leave the teaching to the experts from now on.

Thank you so much again for creating this course. I'm looking forward to taking the rest of it!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Just finished the first video and read Day 1 section in Ebook. NOT boring at all! I have a short attention span and most poker tutorial looses me halfway through. Collin and Katie's banter in the video is fun and keeps things lively. The concept is well elaborated on and laid out in Ebook without being long winded.

I once tried describing the importance of position in poker to someone and it was a complete disaster unless you count turning people off from playing altogether and thinning the field as a strategy lol. I'll leave the teaching to the experts from now on.

Thank you so much again for creating this course. I'm looking forward to taking the rest of it!

Hooray, this is so great to hear! I hope you enjoy the rest of the course too, and just let us know if you have any questions along the way!

 

[Edgerik]

Assuming we have a middle pair, like J-J, 10-10, 9-9, or 8-8, an opponent made a raise pre-flop, and we have position on him post-flop. What would be the correct move?

 

[Katie Dozier]

Assuming we have a middle pair, like J-J, 10-10, 9-9, or 8-8, an opponent made a raise pre-flop, and we have position on him post-flop. What would be the correct move?

While of course this will depend on effective stacks, assuming it’s pretty deep, it’s a rare spot that I like to default take a more passive line on pre-flop (generally speaking).Reads are also very important in that situation though, as I wouldn’t 3-bet a Tight-aggressive reg that raised UTG with JJ in the CO, but I would certainly do that versus a maniac.

In general with the middling pairs, early position openers and a deep stack, I will play them preflop a lot like I would smaller pairs I would be set-mining with. But post flop, I’ll be doing potentially a lot more than set mining with the knowledge that my hand is likely to be fairly underrepresented to most players.

Hope this helps! [emoji4]

 

[Edgerik]

Thanks Katie, it's a good strategy.

 

[uri73796]

It's a good strategy

 

[Pichman189]

Just finished the first video and read Day 1 section in Ebook. NOT boring at all! I have a short attention span and most poker tutorial looses me halfway through. Collin and Katie's banter in the video is fun and keeps things lively. The concept is well elaborated on and laid out in Ebook without being long winded.

I once tried describing the importance of position in poker to someone and it was a complete disaster unless you count turning people off from playing altogether and thinning the field as a strategy lol. I'll leave the teaching to the experts from now on.

Thank you so much again for creating this course. I'm looking forward to taking the rest of it!

Yes, I totally agree with you. Collin and Katy are great professionals. Poker is a complex science. They tell complex topics in simple language and it's nice to listen to them on video, I think it would be nice to watch too, but I didn't find an interview about poker
I went through week 1 and do not regret it a bit, everything is cool and informative. Usually I would stop half way and give up this business and just play poker and never finish studying theory. This time it's different and I will finish this course!) Let this be my starting point in the world of professional poker. I advise you to complete this awesome course too!)

 

[Pichman189]

While of course this will depend on effective stacks, assuming it’s pretty deep, it’s a rare spot that I like to default take a more passive line on pre-flop (generally speaking).Reads are also very important in that situation though, as I wouldn’t 3-bet a Tight-aggressive reg that raised UTG with JJ in the CO, but I would certainly do that versus a maniac.

In general with the middling pairs, early position openers and a deep stack, I will play them preflop a lot like I would smaller pairs I would be set-mining with. But post flop, I’ll be doing potentially a lot more than set mining with the knowledge that my hand is likely to be fairly underrepresented to most players.

Hope this helps! [emoji4]

Great answer!

It's very interesting and for me set minnig is new concept
Will there be more details on this in the course?

and what we will do if we don't hit a set on the flop, cbet a check raise or a free card, it's very interesting how to play small and medium hole cards if we don't hit a set on the flop. Is this set mining preflop?

 

[Katie Dozier]

Great answer!

It's very interesting and for me set minnig is new concept
Will there be more details on this in the course?

and what we will do if we don't hit a set on the flop, cbet a check raise or a free card, it's very interesting how to play small and medium hole cards if we don't hit a set on the flop. Is this set mining preflop?

Thanks! And yes there will be more to come .

In general when we set mine we will fold to a lot of c-bets though of course there are a lot of exceptions with pretty much any general rule in poker! The stronger our hand, the less common our decision to fold will be.

 

[oakthyago]

I just read the first day I would like to congratulate all the people that was envolved on this. the books looks great the writting is good and will be such a help for begginings and intermediates players

position is excencial and such a good choice for the first topic of the book. Its easy to understand the logic of playing last but takes a long time to really notice how good is to be the last one to give information because you can change you action base on the villain reation that played first

congrats guys such a good begining and I will be here each day in each chapter talking and discussion with all of you