To what extent can I trust the poker software?

[hjuosh]

Go on twitch or youtube and spend some time watching live poker tables at transmissons like pokerstars. You'll realize that most times, players won't hit anything on board, as it should be. Now watch some online poker and see people hitting strong hands by the minute. I mean, for every tournament you play you see what 10~15x full houses? At least 1 quad per tournament and what not.

That's just not how it works brah. I'm not saying they rigged it for player A or B. But its definetely rigged to boost hits and pots.
And that changes everything about it.

But anyway, I'm really done with this discussion, online poker is not for me, I hate to be deceived... Even if I'm profitable, the idea of being scammed at daily basis deeply annoys me. Just play freerolls for fun once in a while... And thats it.

P.s.: If that is only truly variance, I'll tell ya: I'm the most unluckiest bastard who ever walked this earth. God must hate me, no joke.

Okay — I think everyone could have felt what you’re describing at least once.
Anyway, I’ve watched a lot of live streams and tournaments where players’ hands are revealed, and I’m pretty sure even top pros get the same bad beats. So I’m just asking: how do you explain the success of Juan Pardo or Adrián Mateos? I only mention those two because they’re incredible winners both online and live, but there are many more examples.

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

it.

But anyway, I'm really done with this discussion, online poker is not for me, I hate to be deceived... Even if I'm profitable, the idea of being scammed at daily basis deeply annoys me. Just play freerolls for fun once in a while... And thats it.

Thats a good one. Thanks for making me laugh by the end of the weekend, missed that feeling already
😆👍

 

[hardongear]

Depends on where one plays to be honest. I've played mainly at pokerstars now for 20+ years and I'm just a rec/hobby player who plays 2nl-50nl full-ring cash and longer blind level(10+ min) $5+ buy-in MTT's. I'm be no means near that good a player and there are plenty more knowledgeable and more recently studied players in these forums. Yet I don't struggle to be a winning player at my stakes and game selection I play. If I can be a winner player anyone can learn to be at them stakes and with that game selection.

Sadly most players aren't good at the following: bankroll management, mental toughness/tilt control, patience, discipline and game selection. And if one isn't good at them things they'll never be a long term winning player no matter how studied in poker they are and no matter how knowledgeable they are about poker.

20+ years zero issues and problems at Pokerstars. Idk I trust them plenty no reason not too given my 20+ year good history and experience playing there.

Cheers!!!

 

[DarkSage]

Okay — I think everyone could have felt what you’re describing at least once.
Anyway, I’ve watched a lot of live streams and tournaments where players’ hands are revealed, and I’m pretty sure even top pros get the same bad beats. So I’m just asking: how do you explain the success of Juan Pardo or Adrián Mateos? I only mention those two because they’re incredible winners both online and live, but there are many more examples.

I thought about this for a long time, its true. It doesn't make sense for it to be rigged if there are people making profit from it consistently, that's why I tried to trust it. But man, after losing like 10x AKs IN SEQUENCE. Really, my faith is drained. Too many times floping pocket kings just to find out the other person had pocket aces. Besides, the percentage of people really profiting consistently from poker is super small compared to amount of people playing.

So yeah, the only explanation I've got to these super winners is this: Central Limit Theorem.


If you take a sufficiently large random sample from any population, the distribution of the sample means will be approximately normally distributed, regardless of the population's original distribution. That means that most people will be around zero in terms of gain/loss, as they should. But it also means that a small amount of players will be very unlucky, will suffer lots of bad hits and loose much more than the mean(that's me), and it also means that a small percentage of the players will be incredibly lucky, and will make good hits out of most of their good hands and profit much more than the mean(thats Juan Pardo, or Adrián Mateos if you may). And that's just the nature of these things.

The lucky guy will later on produce a poker course to "explain how he won(he got lucky lol)", and then he'll be rich selling courses. Detail: most of his students won't be able to match his results, only a few. Why only a few? Central Limit Theorem. Only a few of his students will get lucky as he was.

Only this week:
- KK loosing to 64o, the board was X6X64(all in from preflop, I usually don't play these hands all in, but this situation required it. Now, who goes all in with 64o? cheaters, obviously, the guy was probably being able to see the flop cards before other players)
- J10, flop comes XXJ, I bet small with top pair. Turn is a 10, no draws on the board, I bet big. Villain won with 10-10 (he floped the ONE SINGLE card he could to win)
- AKs, KKs, QQs, JJs: several losses with theses hands, I mean up to now, AKs are the absolute worst hand in this game in my experience. I'd rather play a 74o than any AKs, its just AWAYS a trap. It either don't hit, or when it does, there's aways somebody with something better. I can almost guess other peoples hands by this point when I play them... I mean, its a clear pattern...

And this is nothing, its just the tip. I could be here all day telling you dozens of hands like that. Endless hands man, I lost count of them too long ago. I'm talking about CONSTANT bad beats like that. Hands where I had A-flush just to find out the other guy had a fullhouse with 65 whatever, hands where I had a fullhouse from flop, just to find out the other guy had quads. QUADS. I know this could happen sometimes, but this ofte? Are u sure? Too often to be real. This happens basically everyday. To me, it just seems very hard to trust it.

Of course skill has its part on the game. That being said, you can be as skillfull as you desire, at the end of the day, if your cards hit wrongly, you're dead. Hands like the ones I mentioned, this J10 for example, I hardly doubt a professional would be able to dodge it.

But hey, believe whatever you want, god bless you. ^^

 

[hjuosh]

I thought about this for a long time, its true. It doesn't make sense for it to be rigged if there are people making profit from it consistently, that's why I tried to trust it. But man, after losing like 10x AKs IN SEQUENCE. Really, my faith is drained. Too many times floping pocket kings just to find out the other person had pocket aces. Besides, the percentage of people really profiting consistently from poker is super small compared to amount of people playing.

So yeah, the only explanation I've got to these super winners is this: Central Limit Theorem.

View attachment 395532
If you take a sufficiently large random sample from any population, the distribution of the sample means will be approximately normally distributed, regardless of the population's original distribution. That means that most people will be around zero in terms of gain/loss, as they should. But it also means that a small amount of players will be very unlucky, will suffer lots of bad hits and loose much more than the mean(that's me), and it also means that a small percentage of the players will be incredibly lucky, and will make good hits out of most of their good hands and profit much more than the mean(thats Juan Pardo, or Adrián Mateos if you may). And that's just the nature of these things.

The lucky guy will later on produce a poker course to "explain how he won(he got lucky lol)", and then he'll be rich selling courses. Detail: most of his students won't be able to match his results, only a few. Why only a few? Central Limit Theorem. Only a few of his students will get lucky as he was.

Only this week:
- KK loosing to 64o, the board was X6X64(all in from preflop, I usually don't play these hands all in, but this situation required it. Now, who goes all in with 64o? cheaters, obviously, the guy was probably being able to see the flop cards before other players)
- J10, flop comes XXJ, I bet small with top pair. Turn is a 10, no draws on the board, I bet big. Villain won with 10-10 (he floped the ONE SINGLE card he could to win)
- AKs, KKs, QQs, JJs: several losses with theses hands, I mean up to now, AKs are the absolute worst hand in this game in my experience. I'd rather play a 74o than any AKs, its just AWAYS a trap. It either don't hit, or when it does, there's aways somebody with something better. I can almost guess other peoples hands by this point when I play them... I mean, its a clear pattern...

And this is nothing, its just the tip. I could be here all day telling you dozens of hands like that. Endless hands man, I lost count of them too long ago. I'm talking about CONSTANT bad beats like that. Hands where I had A-flush just to find out the other guy had a fullhouse with 65 whatever, hands where I had a fullhouse from flop, just to find out the other guy had quads. QUADS. I know this could happen sometimes, but this ofte? Are u sure? Too often to be real. This happens basically everyday. To me, it just seems very hard to trust it.

Of course skill has its part on the game. That being said, you can be as skillfull as you desire, at the end of the day, if your cards hit wrongly, you're dead. Hands like the ones I mentioned, this J10 for example, I hardly doubt a professional would be able to dodge it.

But hey, believe whatever you want, god bless you. ^^

It’s definitely hard to achieve success. It’s not for everyone — and maybe that’s the point. Those who make it into that small percentage of winners truly deserve it for their effort.

 

[GarotoMaroto]

Thats a great question and I have no Idea what the answer is
I only trust Jesus
God bless

 

[hjuosh]

I thought about this for a long time, its true. It doesn't make sense for it to be rigged if there are people making profit from it consistently, that's why I tried to trust it. But man, after losing like 10x AKs IN SEQUENCE. Really, my faith is drained. Too many times floping pocket kings just to find out the other person had pocket aces. Besides, the percentage of people really profiting consistently from poker is super small compared to amount of people playing.

So yeah, the only explanation I've got to these super winners is this: Central Limit Theorem.

View attachment 395532
If you take a sufficiently large random sample from any population, the distribution of the sample means will be approximately normally distributed, regardless of the population's original distribution. That means that most people will be around zero in terms of gain/loss, as they should. But it also means that a small amount of players will be very unlucky, will suffer lots of bad hits and loose much more than the mean(that's me), and it also means that a small percentage of the players will be incredibly lucky, and will make good hits out of most of their good hands and profit much more than the mean(thats Juan Pardo, or Adrián Mateos if you may). And that's just the nature of these things.

The lucky guy will later on produce a poker course to "explain how he won(he got lucky lol)", and then he'll be rich selling courses. Detail: most of his students won't be able to match his results, only a few. Why only a few? Central Limit Theorem. Only a few of his students will get lucky as he was.

Only this week:
- KK loosing to 64o, the board was X6X64(all in from preflop, I usually don't play these hands all in, but this situation required it. Now, who goes all in with 64o? cheaters, obviously, the guy was probably being able to see the flop cards before other players)
- J10, flop comes XXJ, I bet small with top pair. Turn is a 10, no draws on the board, I bet big. Villain won with 10-10 (he floped the ONE SINGLE card he could to win)
- AKs, KKs, QQs, JJs: several losses with theses hands, I mean up to now, AKs are the absolute worst hand in this game in my experience. I'd rather play a 74o than any AKs, its just AWAYS a trap. It either don't hit, or when it does, there's aways somebody with something better. I can almost guess other peoples hands by this point when I play them... I mean, its a clear pattern...

And this is nothing, its just the tip. I could be here all day telling you dozens of hands like that. Endless hands man, I lost count of them too long ago. I'm talking about CONSTANT bad beats like that. Hands where I had A-flush just to find out the other guy had a fullhouse with 65 whatever, hands where I had a fullhouse from flop, just to find out the other guy had quads. QUADS. I know this could happen sometimes, but this ofte? Are u sure? Too often to be real. This happens basically everyday. To me, it just seems very hard to trust it.

Of course skill has its part on the game. That being said, you can be as skillfull as you desire, at the end of the day, if your cards hit wrongly, you're dead. Hands like the ones I mentioned, this J10 for example, I hardly doubt a professional would be able to dodge it.

But hey, believe whatever you want, god bless you. ^^

I found this, talking about you feel unlucky, I think it gives us a way to see reality — it happens not only to amateurs. The good thing is that if the bankroll is strong enough, it shouldn’t be a problem. Just it is frustrating, that's true.

 

[jordanmt91]

Some sites have to be trusted.

 

[thwenth1983]

Good morning, everyone!
When I first started playing, I used to ask myself the same questions about the card draws and the RNG on poker sites. But rest assured, reputable poker sites are 100% safe when it comes to RNG — they undergo international gaming security audits.
Think about it: most of these sites’ profits come from casino games, where they make millions every day. The profit they get from poker is less than 1% compared to casino revenue — poker brings in very small margins.
So why would a site that earns millions per day from its casino manipulate a $1.10 MTT just to favor your opponent? The site doesn’t care who wins the $1.10 MTT or the $1,050 one.
Bad beats are part of the game, and if you keep playing, they’ll keep happening. The truth is, since we play proper ranges and villains play any two cards, we end up taking more bad beats than we give.

 

[dreamer13]

Poker can be a brutal game at times, and there's hardly a player who hasn't felt cheated to some degree after a major bad beat or after finding themselves on the losing side of a cooler. While most people chalk such things up to bad luck in live poker, losing big pots to coolers and bad beats often sparks discussions about cheating in online poker.The most important thing to understand is that the random number generators used by major online poker operators like GGPoker, PokerStars or partypoker are audited by several independent agencies whose sole job is to ensure the security of such software when used online.

 

[DarkSage]

Some sites have to be trusted.

"have to" kkkkkkkkkkkkkk


Ok love, have you written your letter to Santa Claus this year yet? 🧸

 

[DarkSage]

Good morning, everyone!
When I first started playing, I used to ask myself the same questions about the card draws and the RNG on poker sites. But rest assured, reputable poker sites are 100% safe when it comes to RNG — they undergo international gaming security audits.
Think about it: most of these sites’ profits come from casino games, where they make millions every day. The profit they get from poker is less than 1% compared to casino revenue — poker brings in very small margins.
So why would a site that earns millions per day from its casino manipulate a $1.10 MTT just to favor your opponent? The site doesn’t care who wins the $1.10 MTT or the $1,050 one.
Bad beats are part of the game, and if you keep playing, they’ll keep happening. The truth is, since we play proper ranges and villains play any two cards, we end up taking more bad beats than we give.

Never doubt of human's greed dear, that's endless. But I respect your point of view. Me myself, haven't got to a conclusion yet, but it'll come up eventually.

 

[DarkSage]

Poker can be a brutal game at times, and there's hardly a player who hasn't felt cheated to some degree after a major bad beat or after finding themselves on the losing side of a cooler. While most people chalk such things up to bad luck in live poker, losing big pots to coolers and bad beats often sparks discussions about cheating in online poker.The most important thing to understand is that the random number generators used by major online poker operators like GGPoker, PokerStars or PartyPoker are audited by several independent agencies whose sole job is to ensure the security of such software when used online.

Yeah, I tend to think of it more like a genuine flaw of the algorithm than an intentional cheat. Sometimes I think computers are just no able to produce true randomness, but who knows. I just wish it to be fair. But anyway, thanks for all the answers, I'll try to reduce the frenquency to see if it helps.

 

[Rmi]

Normally, the software doesn't need the $2 it can make you lose, nor is it against you or anything like that you can imagine. It's just temporary bad luck.

 

[Brigistul]

Pokerul e greu și e în interesul unui site de poker să-ți ofere jocuri corecte. Practic, ei imprimă bani, nu știu de ce ar vrea să pună în pericol acest lucru modificând software-ul astfel încât să apară un As pe river când pariezi all-in cu KK vs. A50 împotriva unui jucător aleatoriu. Nu văd nicio recompensă pentru riscul enorm pe care și l-ar asuma site-ul folosind un software RNG trucat. Ce câștigă ei înșelându-te, care să merite reputația și licențierea lor?

Asumă-ți responsabilitatea pentru propriul joc și va fi mai ușor să vezi când și unde ești înșelat, dar, din nou, nu cred că site-urile au vreun avantaj în a-l lăsa pe ticălos să se răzgândească, se întâmplă lucruri nebunești când joci pe acțiuni și era doar rândul lui să lovească a doua extremă.

GL

EDS

Don't you realize it's not about a person! It is a whole system of conditions set by those who made the software in which there are enormous many parameters: deposits, withdrawals, account balance, etc.And RNG serves you with your hands depending on what you played. Everything is arranged...

 

[Brigistul]

Don't you realize it's not about a person? It is a whole system of stability conditions of those who created the software, in which there are a multitude of parameters: deposits, withdrawals, account balance, etc. Everything is arranged... as with slots it gives you little and takes you a lot! that there are also cases when you come first, it's not math, it's your luck that day. This is how addictive it is!

 

[anasslaaleg]

Here’s the truth: reputable platforms are heavily regulated and use random number generators (RNGs) that are tested by third-party auditors. That means the cards themselves are fair no one is deciding who wins behind the scenes.
But where trust gets complicated is in the players, not the software. Collusion, bots, and data mining can exist especially on smaller or unregulated sites. That’s why choosing the right platform matters just as much as your strategy.
Stick to licensed sites with proven security
Avoid chasing bonuses on unknown Apps
Protect your data and never share hand histories publicly
At the end of the day, trust the math, not emotions. Software can be fair but discipline, bankroll management, and vigilance are still your best defense.
Your edge comes from skill, not suspicion.

 

[DarkSage]

Just had another perfect session with those wonderful bad beats lined up to rip my stack. kkkkk And you know what?
I decided that I don't want to play online anymore. Not even freeroll. This shit is not worth my time.



You guys have a good time being scammed! Goodbye and good """luck"""! ^^

 

[Jpatch]

Action situations are desirable from the software perspective. Is it truly RNG? Are there inconspicuous algorithms that create situations for suckouts on online poker sites?

Or is it that when you win w JJ vs AA preflop, you move on and keep playing but when you AJs gets cracked by A8o you are kicked out of your tournament and can’t help feel some bitterness?!?

The house always wins.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I found this, talking about you feel unlucky, I think it gives us a way to see reality — it happens not only to amateurs. The good thing is that if the bankroll is strong enough, it shouldn’t be a problem. Just it is frustrating, that's true.

BUT the person has to be a winning player (a.k.a. GOOD player) to begin with. No amount of buy-ins will save a player who isn't good enough to beat the stakes they play (whether that's $1 mtt's or $1,000 mtt's).

 

[Poker Orifice]

Don't you realize it's not about a person? It is a whole system of stability conditions of those who created the software, in which there are a multitude of parameters: deposits, withdrawals, account balance, etc. Everything is arranged... as with slots it gives you little and takes you a lot! that there are also cases when you come first, it's not math, it's your luck that day. This is how addictive it is!

Dude. It's poker. The cards are dealt and the rest is up to you. This other bunch of garbage you're suggested is made up in your head.
Suggesting poker is anything at all like slots (saying it is 'arranged') is complete nonsense.
And guess what.... it IS math.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Yeah, I tend to think of it more like a genuine flaw of the algorithm than an intentional cheat. Sometimes I think computers are just no able to produce true randomness, but who knows. I just wish it to be fair. But anyway, thanks for all the answers, I'll try to reduce the frenquency to see if it helps.

Do you want to try something that actually works? Something that has been proven time and time again?? It's called studying. Probably a great place to start is the Cardschat 30-day course. It is FREE! It amazes me how many people are determined to win but without putting in the work. When I began playing online they didn't have nicely arranged courses, put together by well known professional poker players. You had to pay for everything back then and those who did, reaped the benefits.
These days with all of the free info. out there the game has become MUCH more difficult to win. You can be playing 10nl poker against a bunch of people who are doing this to feed themselves.
Tournaments are probably your best bet these days but one needs to be prepared to deal with what comes when playing tournaments. Variance can be extremely painful! THIS IS POKER!! Not everyone is cut out to play.

 

[Poker Orifice]

and it also means that a small percentage of the players will be incredibly lucky, and will make good hits out of most of their good hands and profit much more than the mean(thats Juan Pardo, or Adrián Mateos if you may). And that's just the nature of these things.

The lucky guy will later on produce a poker course to "explain how he won(he got lucky lol)", and then he'll be rich selling courses. Detail: most of his students won't be able to match his results, only a few. Why only a few? Central Limit Theorem. Only a few of his students will get lucky as he was.

If you even remotely believe what you're written here ^ It explains a lot.
Those two mentioned players have played in 10's of thouands of MTTs. Their success isn't based on luck as you might want to believe.

 

[Poker Orifice]

But it also means that a small amount of players will be very unlucky, will suffer lots of bad hits and loose much more than the mean(that's me),

Or maybe it could have something to do with the fact that those 'lucky players' are doing the work.... and others who are wanting to look for excuses are doing very little (if any).

If you had two boxers facing off in a match which one would you bet on? (you've been given a 'Free 10 bet' that you have won in a freeroll for the sake of this example)
#1 - guy has had a 10year amateur career before going pro. He's trained with some of the country's best coaches for years. He's in great shape and is in his prime. He's done his homework. He's had help from a team to have him prepared for his next bout.
#2 - guy thinks he's good. He's knocked out a bunch of guys down at the corner pub at 1am when the bar is clearing out. He's won a few boxing fights when he's landed a 'lucky' punch. He doesn't believe in training though (it's all about landing a lucky punch... no?) ...and why would he ever consider wasting money on a coach?(a coach isn't going to swing a looping right hook for him).

 

[hjuosh]

BUT the person has to be a winning player (a.k.a. GOOD player) to begin with. No amount of buy-ins will save a player who isn't good enough to beat the stakes they play (whether that's $1 mtt's or $1,000 mtt's).

That's true. I usually think, the frustration losing on a freeroll, should be the same losing on microstage or on a $20 buying tournament, or on a $2000. If the bankroll is good enough. The frustration must be almost the same. Because we losing for the variance, and that have not to affect in long run.