Bluff in cash games - a must or just an option?

MaxMx2 · Jun 26, 2016

Is it possible to play cash profirably without bluff?

Syltan · Jun 27, 2016

Because the cache of any game I play agresive for me bluffing is a necessity.

Naitras · Jun 27, 2016

bluff not need if you could read hand

milka1605 · Jun 27, 2016

If you have a premium hand and raises before the flop. On the flop, you do not have a pair. You're making a renewed bid. Is not it a bluff?

maloxu82 · Jun 27, 2016

Someone said that if you're only playing cards not players you will not win much.

You shouldn't bluff everytime , only when it's good time to bluff.

max_cool20 · Jun 27, 2016

Bluff it's a art,but in many cases it is a game of luck

MaxMx2 · Jun 27, 2016

milka1605 said:
If you have a premium hand and raises before the flop. On the flop, you do not have a pair. You're making a renewed bid. Is not it a bluff?

Well, conbet is kind of bluff but if you have two overcards your odds are still good enough. You can catch a pair on turn or river, or simply win with a high card. However, if at the turn you didn't improve your hand and make 2nd conbet - it's pure bluff. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

MaxMx2 · Jun 27, 2016

maloxu82 said:
Someone said that if you're only playing cards not players you will not win much.

That's exactly my point! I tend to think that playing only ABC poker forces you to fold too often and it makes impossible to gain any profit at a distance.

dejan85 · Jun 27, 2016

well in cash game there is no important cards juste to know when to bluff......

jimlahey7 · Jun 27, 2016

bluff

dont think you can win without bluffing

Turn7 · Jun 27, 2016

Of course, poker is also a game of bluffing. For me bluffing is sometimes necessary but I avoid it most of the time. I try more reading others' hands... that's more important for me...

KALUGAJ · Jun 28, 2016

I'm not bluffing often, but when bluff, always I lose, I do not bluff

MaxMx2 · Jun 28, 2016

KALUGAJ said:
I'm not bluffing often, but when bluff, always I lose, I do not bluff

Ok, and are you profitable without bluffing?
I try to avoid bluff as well. The problem is that you don't get good hands and combinations often enough to cover blinds and bad beats. So I start to think that it makes sense to learn when and how to bluff and also how to see other's bluff and protect your hands.

Running Nose II · Jun 28, 2016

You have to bluff now and again. If you don't the other players will read you like a book

quick · Jun 28, 2016

I think people misuse and overuse the bluff. Once I figure out someone is aggro bluffing, esp in cash games, I just wait to get a hand like a flopped set and take their money.

I think I got semi bluffed live the other night and laid down TPTK, but I think most of the time it's OK to fold to a bluff if you aren't sure where you're at in the hand. Money saved is money earned and all that. I got blatantly bluffed in cash online last night ; the guy showed and pointed out "when you don't get cards you got to bluff." I disagree with that logic in a cash game; but in MTTs and SNGs it makes more sense.

I occasionally will bluff on a checked down board if there's only 1-2 players in the hand and I'm last to act to take a small -medium pot. Or as someone else said, sometimes C-betting missed flops is considered a bluff to take a small pot.

The problem with bluffing is that it's overused at the micro and low stakes. Unless you have a great read on someone, most people are calling down with ATCs. I tried a bluff live with top high cards and got called down by like 63o, guy had paired the 3 and there were high cards on the board. I'm ok with folding to a bluff to save my money if I have no idea where I stand in the hand and I'm ok letting pots go instead of trying to bluff the pots into my stack.

tehshaz · Jun 28, 2016

I have to agree with quick. There is a difference between being aggressive and chasing every rabbit with bluffs until you get one. Poker, especially cash games, is about the the long haul and not hand for hand. Sure you may make two hands and win a good amount of BBs, but in the long run you are going lose more then you win. That being said, I would still leave it has an option. Being in the position and going against a loose passive player, a bluff can be a powerful tool.

If you come in to a cash came with enough BBs you can sit and watch cards go by and it will not cost you that much. In MTTs once you get up in the higher levels and chip stacks get shorter then you may want to use it more often. I usually play MTTs as I would cash games until you get into the ante levels, and then I play only slightly more aggressive.

MattRyder · Jun 28, 2016

If you think about how often you don't get good starting cards (or at least I don't), and when you do get them you totally miss the flop, you pretty much have to incorporate bluffing into short-handed (not so much full-ring) cash games to get anywhere.

dundo84 · Jun 28, 2016

Depends on the read and position.Sometimes it's good to bluff and show to create yourself a fake image on the table, it's not always about good cards, don't let them have a read on you.

cwdignus · Jun 28, 2016

bluff is poker tool but specifically cash game better not use can get expensive bluff out of time

Poker247 · Jun 28, 2016

Bluffing depends greatly on your opponents and your read on them. Semi-bluffs in cash games (where you have equity even if you get called because you might hit your hand on a later street) are fairly standard. However, you may get called down by a weak pair if your opponent thinks you have nothing. I rarely will go with a complete bluff...I prefer to get my money in good or with at least decent equity. Mostly depends on your read on your opponent. If they will always fold to a c-bet on the flop if they didn't hit, then by all means. But if you are playing against an ATM (calling station), then be very careful...they might call you down with just Ace high. The more you play and the more notes you have on your opponents, the easier it will be for you to find good spots to make $. GL!

Poker247 · Jun 28, 2016

Bluffing depends greatly on your opponents and your read on them. Semi-bluffs in cash games (where you have equity even if you get called because you might hit your hand on a later street) are fairly standard. However, you may get called down by a weak pair if your opponent thinks you have nothing. I rarely will go with a complete bluff...I prefer to get my money in good or with at least decent equity. Mostly depends on your read on your opponent. If they will always fold to a c-bet on the flop if they didn't hit, then by all means. But if you are playing against an ATM (calling station), then be very careful...they might call you down with just Ace high. The more you play and the more notes you have on your opponents, the easier it will be for you to find good spots to make $. GL!

MaxMx2 · Jul 2, 2016

tehshaz said:
If you come in to a cash came with enough BBs you can sit and watch cards go by and it will not cost you that much. In MTTs once you get up in the higher levels and chip stacks get shorter then you may want to use it more often. I usually play MTTs as I would cash games until you get into the ante levels, and then I play only slightly more aggressive.

That's why I asked my question and started this thread. It's crystal clear for me that in late stages of MTTs you MUST bluff from time to time, otherwise blinds will kill you quite quickly. In cash games blinds are not such a problem, so there is not much sense in pre-flop bluff. But as it was mentioned above, you will not hit the flop every time and also playing without bluff makes it easier for your opps to read your play. Thereby I tend to think bluff is also needed in cash games.

rhombus · Jul 2, 2016

at Micros you can win without bluffing and just value betting, but as you move up in stakes you will need to bluff

vinnie · Jul 2, 2016

If a bluff has a higher expected value than a check, call, or fold than you're making a mistake by not bluffing. One of the weaknesses of many of the players at the micros is that they don't bluff when they should be. They don't make their opponents make difficult decisions. They don't give their opponents an opportunity to make a mistake. They are giving away a lot of value by letting their opponents play correctly.

Yes, your opponents will call too much. That's another mistake we can exploit by value betting more often with weaker hands. But, there are still times when a bluff has more value than other options, even when you account for the fact that it will fail more often than it should. This is especially true when you remember that your odds of facing a rebluff are very low.

In short, I believe it's an essential part of cash game play. It's not something you do every single hand. It is something that you should be willing to do when the spot is right. That even includes complete bluffs (those without any outs) and large bluffs. If you don't occasionally look like a fool when you get a bluff called down, you're almost certainly not bluffing enough.

MaxMx2 · Jul 2, 2016

vinnie said:
If a bluff has a higher expected value than a check, call, or fold than you're making a mistake by not bluffing.

To estimate expected value of a bluff you need to know how often your opps fold to a bet at a given street, don't you? Thus it makes sense to avoid bluff unless you know your opps fit this option.

Bluff in cash games - a must or just an option?

MaxMx2

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