how long should it take to 10 Fold your bankroll?

djrudeboy · Jan 5, 2009

how long should it take to 10 Fold your bankroll?
answer in # of games
assume a good player not wsop bracelet holder and playing standard bakroll rules
obviously variance in game is key ( so forget more than multi table tourneys )
there are 3 answers
1. Head Ups
2.Cash Ring Game
3 Single table SNG's
__________________
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ph_il · Jan 5, 2009

...There is no set number/possible way to figure this out.

You might start of hot and increase BR by 10x in the first week. Or you might run bad for 7 months, then run hot at the 8th month and increase BR by 10x. Or you might even run pretty even each month with slight profits and increase your BR 10x in the course of a year.

ph_il · Jan 5, 2009

bkniefel said:
What does 10 fold even mean?

in means to increase it 10x.

...I think.

Halp, plz.

rubberduck30 · Jan 5, 2009

depends if u are running good or not i guess,I remember a story of a guy who deposited 100 bucks on ft, doubled and doubled. Always moving to higher limit wh full roll, last hand was aa but lost 16k all in 1 day

Rounder_D · Jan 6, 2009

you have to get a good sample size at a certain level and then you can get your roi and then figure out how long it will take you to move up levels, your question can never be answered without some sort of sample size (if sng 500 games at one level should give you good idea)

nykel88 · Jan 6, 2009

Single SnG. If in Pokerstars.. try those SNG that goes double up or nothing. Thats what i did.

chukky88 · Jan 6, 2009

yeah...i love ipoker sng that who duble your buyin...10 players top 5 recieve double his buyin...is a good deal i think

nevadanick · Jan 6, 2009

djrudeboy said:
how long should it take to 10 Fold your bankroll?
answer in # of games
assume a good player not WSOP bracelet holder and playing standard bakroll rules
obviously variance in game is key ( so forget more than multi table tourneys )
there are 3 answers
1. Head Ups
2.Cash Ring Game
3 Single table SNG's

Didn't you answer your own question stating: "obviously variance in game is key" ??

If variance were predictable in every situation you might be able to pin it down to a specific "# of games". I'm not sure there is even a 'range' to estimate.

Wouldn't it also depend on what kind of BR you're looking at? Someone depositing $25 has a whole different field to play than a depositor that starts with a $2,000 BR. Changes the whole structure and outcome - I would think.

VerbalKint · Jan 6, 2009

I`m still trying to 10 FOLD my bankroll, online at least. Every time I get ahead it seems like a bad streak takes me back down to even or lower. Still need to repair the leaks!

BostonRobber · Jan 6, 2009

I have no idea. I would say that the quicker one does this though the more likely they are to be bigger risk takers and in turn the more likely they would be to lose it due to money management issues. I've hit dead spots where sets of aces fall flat in the face of suited junk or less. If this happens on the way up it could extend the campaign indefinitely.

djrudeboy · Jan 11, 2009

Darn. I was hoping to get a time frame (game frame) to turn $50 into five hundred. My instinct is to to play $1 & $2 SNG's to do this but wanted to get a consensus on how long it should take.
Maybe the question should be what is a realistic expectation of ROI on SNG's?

Lets say it is +10%
That means (starting at $50) it would take 10 games to double and 100 to get to $500

Maybe some one with sharkscope could figure out the the median roi for winning players

Makwa · Jan 11, 2009

djrudeboy said:
Darn. I was hoping to get a time frame (game frame) to turn $50 into five hundred. My instinct is to to play $1 & $2 SNG's to do this but wanted to get a consensus on how long it should take.
Maybe the question should be what is a realistic expectation of ROI on SNG's?

Lets say it is +10%
That means (starting at $50) it would take 10 games to double and 100 to get to $500

Maybe some one with sharkscope could figure out the the median roi for winning players

ROI for SNGs should be above 10% if u r any good, at most levels... For sake of estimating I would stick to 10% ROI, although if doing very well u can push 20% for long stretches, but dont count on it.

Rounder_D · Jan 11, 2009

your math is off if your playing $1-$2 sng with say even 15% roi that is $2 x .15 will give you what you make each game for profit, which = .30 a game so after 10 games would only be $3 profit. its not so easy to just make money especially with low buy-in games, it will take you some time to make $450 profit. approx 1500 games at $2 level, if that helps at all

RoyalFish · Jan 15, 2009

I think it depends on many, many things. One friend of mine who consistently spanked me at cash games dropped a few $K online and quit playing. His style just didn't work there. So, for some, the answer is never. If you have a positive ROI, the answer is "sometime". Probably. (See "Risk of ruin")

From personal experience, it took me a little over a year for my first 10x in microlimit, starting at SnGs and progressing to cash games. I can't tell you how many hands or hours that was, nor tourneys. But it took 13 months. That sounds like a long time, but go ask a stock broker how long it takes to 10x his money.

On another site, I'm up about 80% in 50 games with an ROI of just shy of 50%. That's a small sample, and so probably both statistically invalid and indicitive of the quality of play at microlimit SnGs rather than my own skill. If I maintain the rate, I'll 10x in about 700 games. Won't surprise me a bit if it's a lot longer, especially since I'll be moving up in buy-ins and presumably hitting better players.

Bengals_Boy · Feb 19, 2009

Depends on how much you play and nowing when to stop.That game where u say just one more hand u should already should have paked it in for the day.

LizzyJ · Feb 20, 2009

BostonRobber said:
I have no idea. I would say that the quicker one does this though the more likely they are to be bigger risk takers and in turn the more likely they would be to lose it due to money management issues. I've hit dead spots where sets of aces fall flat in the face of suited junk or less. If this happens on the way up it could extend the campaign indefinitely.

If this happens??????? Oh c'mon nowwwww.

We know how lady luck behaves. There is NO 'if'......this WILL happen. It doesn't matter how strong of a player you are, it is not uncommon for a winning player to go on a 10, 15, 20 game losing streak where you DON'T finish ITM. Not because of skill...like you mentioned, "aces fall flat in the face of suited junk or less."

You can read as many books in the world, make all the right decisions and still lose. I've gone through it and so have you.

Many of us (me included) have been humbled by Lady Luck.

EvilEmperor · Feb 20, 2009

Starting with $85 I got to $1000 in about 4 weeks. I wasn't super strict about bankroll management but I generally wanted 20 buy ins for a level before I would move up. That was playing 1 table sngs and some heads up for about 3 or 4 hours a day no multitabling.

BelgoSuisse · Feb 20, 2009

djrudeboy said:
how long should it take to 10 Fold your bankroll?

Let's assume a really good cash game grinder able to win 5 BB/100 while playing 500 hands/hour. Only a very few people here can do that. That means you win 25 BB/hour, i.e. half a buy-in per hour.

Following an aggressive bankroll management approach were you need 20 buy-ins to play a given stake, you can double your original bankroll by winning another 20 buy-ins, which takes about 40 hours.

Then you move up to the next stake, need another 40 hours to double up again, which brings you to 4 times the original bankroll.

Then you move up to the next stake again, need yet another 40 hours to double up again, which brings you to 8 times the original bankroll.

Then you move up to the next stake one last time, and it takes about 12 hours to complete your quest.

In total, this required 132 hours.

Caveat: the assumption that you can win at 5 BB/100 and keep that win rate while moving up 3 levels is REALLY optimistic. It can only apply to epic grinders who are rebuilding their rolls after a major cashout, imo.

dumpy620_84 · Mar 5, 2009

I have some contradicting thoughts about my back roll and table limits. I currently have $2,000 in my bankroll. I always play $.10-$.25 NL both reg. and deep stack. I know that a good BR management player plays not over 5% of his BR on any given cash table. I currently play 16 tables at a time. Well, $25 per table times 16 tables = $400 of my bankroll. So each day when I play I am only leveraging $400 out of my $2000 to work for me. This leaves $1600 that is not going to work for me. Using the no more that 5% rule, I could and possibly should be playing at the $.25-$.50 tables and still be within 5% parameters yet utilizing more of my bankroll. Any thoughts about this? In order to play fewer tables and increase my limits, I would be playing over the 5% rule. I do not employ any poker tracking software. I would love to hear from you players who are using it. I am a winning player and cash each and every month but I am not aware of my actual win rate numbers and what not. Any thoughts on this topic would be much appreciated and thanks guys. have fun out there.

BelgoSuisse · Mar 6, 2009

dumpy620_84 said:
I have some contradicting thoughts about my back roll and table limits. I currently have $2,000 in my bankroll. I always play $.10-$.25 NL both reg. and deep stack. I know that a good BR management player plays not over 5% of his BR on any given cash table. I currently play 16 tables at a time. Well, $25 per table times 16 tables = $400 of my bankroll. So each day when I play I am only leveraging $400 out of my $2000 to work for me. This leaves $1600 that is not going to work for me. Using the no more that 5% rule, I could and possibly should be playing at the $.25-$.50 tables and still be within 5% parameters yet utilizing more of my bankroll. Any thoughts about this? In order to play fewer tables and increase my limits, I would be playing over the 5% rule. I do not employ any poker tracking software. I would love to hear from you players who are using it. I am a winning player and cash each and every month but I am not aware of my actual win rate numbers and what not. Any thoughts on this topic would be much appreciated and thanks guys. have fun out there.

You play 16 tables and don't use a HUD ???? Seriously consider buying one. It's so much easier with it...

Playing 50nl with a $2k bankroll is fine, imo. Just make sure you have a moving down to 25nl limit in place in case you hit a downswing.

how long should it take to 10 Fold your bankroll?

djrudeboy

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