how can online players make a living from rake?

indahood193 · Mar 27, 2013

okay, i have heard that grinders, if they are break even, are able to make a living from the rake they achieve through all their hours of play. on Pokerstars, you receive the rake in terms of fpp's, no? so how is this used to pay bills etc, unless you have enough to buy the porsche and then sell it haha. i am very confused on this topic.

snklzona · Mar 27, 2013

Hopefully you will hear from the more knowledgable people than I on here but it is my guess that it would be from sites that have rake back %'s...

aero87 · Mar 27, 2013

Rakeback, trading points for cash or tournament tickets, rake race promotions, exclusive freeroll tournaments for certain volume players.

vinylspiros · Mar 27, 2013

indahood193 said:
okay, i have heard that grinders, if they are break even, are able to make a living from the rake they achieve through all their hours of play. on Pokerstars, you receive the rake in terms of fpp's, no? so how is this used to pay bills etc, unless you have enough to buy the porsche and then sell it haha. i am very confused on this topic.

thats a pretty good question that i myself dont seem to be able to understand. i mean pokerstars gives you back some fpp's that you can buy stuff with but in order to get enough fpp's for it even to mean something(like over 100.000),you must have already played thousands of dollars so i dont even think that some fpp gifts or some minor money return means nothing compared to what your grinding and what you had to do to get it.

is that what confuses you? i mean is that what ur asking? cause if so,thats my question as well.

vinylspiros · Mar 27, 2013

dont think theres anyway you can make a living from rakeback.NO WAY. its just something alittle extra on the side that for most of us means nothing. cause its of minimal value compared to what weve gambled.

dmorris68 · Mar 27, 2013

It's rakeback, which is a percentage of the rake you pay. True rakeback is cash deposited back into your account, but VIP/FPP type programs that redeem points for cash rewards or bonuses can also be considered rakeback. PokerStars has never offered a pure rakeback scheme. Sites that do offer rakeback generally offer from 27-35% although there are certain special/affiliate/prop deals that can earn you as much as 50-60% or more back.

Very high volume grinders can be break-even or even slightly losing players and still turn a profit from rakeback. But again, their volume is huge.

For instance, I don't know about today but pre-BF if you qualified for SNE (SuperNova Elite) on PokerStars, the cash and bonus value alone was over $100K/year -- so you could theoretically make $0 playing poker and still clear $100K/yr.

indahood193 · Mar 27, 2013

yeah i am just confused because you are given the fpp's, but then i also heard that one about sne where they are given bonuses up to $100k a year. are these bonuses basically the same way in which you earn those $10 bonuses for earning 750 fpp's, but on a much larger scale?

vinylspiros · Mar 27, 2013

dmorris68 said:
It's rakeback, which is a percentage of the rake you pay. True rakeback is cash deposited back into your account, but VIP/FPP type programs that redeem points for cash rewards or bonuses can also be considered rakeback. PokerStars has never offered a pure rakeback scheme. Sites that do offer rakeback generally offer from 27-35% although there are certain special/affiliate/prop deals that can earn you as much as 50-60% or more back.

Very high volume grinders can be break-even or even slightly losing players and still turn a profit from rakeback. But again, their volume is huge.

For instance, I don't know about today but pre-BF if you qualified for SNE (SuperNova Elite) on PokerStars, the cash and bonus value alone was over $100K/year -- so you could theoretically make $0 playing poker and still clear $100K/yr.

thats probably why i dont get what they mean with rakeback,since i have only played on stars. my highest was platinum star which i could only maintain for like 2-3 months but it was too much of a hassle to play that much poker and after playing bigger money for more time and collected ALOT of fpp's,i never felt that i ever recieved anything in terms of bonuses from the site that meant anything besides the actual cash i had won.

tenbob · Mar 27, 2013

Most players that use the FPP system on pokerstars use their fpp's to buy into tournaments. Once upon a time i used to play the 5,400 fpp games to the sunday million, unreg and take the $t.

Now i play the 235 fpp hyper-turbo sats to the sunday storm. This month i have played 17 of them and cashed in 10 for a rake back of $110.

vinylspiros · Mar 27, 2013

tenbob said:
Most players that use the FPP system on pokerstars use their fpp's to buy into tournaments. Once upon a time i used to play the 5,400 fpp games to the sunday million, unreg and take the $t.

Now i play the 235 fpp hyper-turbo sats to the sunday storm. This month i have played 17 of them and cashed in 10 for a rake back of $110.

right right ok. i see what you mean. thats cool. so then you use the 110 t$ ,play in tourneys and turn it into actual cash if you win right?

Indian Givah · Mar 27, 2013

last time i checked PS had cash bonus's you could buy with you fpp's in the store. kind of like a deposit bonus. buuuttttt, being in the states i dont even have the PS software anymore, and the bonus's may not exist anymore

vinylspiros · Mar 27, 2013

Indian Givah said:
last time i checked PS had cash bonus's you could buy with you fpp's in the store. kind of like a deposit bonus. buuuttttt, being in the states i dont even have the PS software anymore, and the bonus's may not exist anymore

yea sure it does. i think by them time your at gold star you have unlocked maybe like 50 to 100 bucks total but the thing is that you have to grind so many thousands of dollars to get there that the 50 or 100$ that you purchase through fpp's/unlock dont really feel like compensation.but hey!, free money is free money.

Indian Givah · Mar 27, 2013

vinylspiros said:
yea sure it does. i think by them time your at gold star you have unlocked maybe like 50 to 100 bucks total but the thing is that you have to grind so many thousands of dollars to get there that the 50 or 100$ that you purchase through fpp's/unlock dont really feel like compensation.but hey!, free money is free money.

If you can't grind 1k a month then probably shouldnt be playing poker for a living. normally they're playing 16+ tables, idk what the value of 1fpp to rake is but maybe you can stack the bonus's. also normally no one is living off rb until they're higher in the stakes at atleast 50NL at the minimum. not 100% positive but anyone correct me if im wrong.

dmorris68 · Mar 27, 2013

If you think gold or platinum is tough, try grinding for SNE. Relatively few people actually ever make it. Then again there were a couple of top high-stakes grinders that would make it in like the first 3 months of the year. Oh, and you'd never make it single tabling, multi-tabling is a must.

VIP programs are most lucrative only to very high volume players, those that pay like $3K+ a month in rake. Below that, which applies to the vast majority of players, pure rakeback is a better deal. Of course sites like PS don't give you a choice, but other sites do (or did).

tenbob · Mar 27, 2013

vinylspiros said:
right right ok. i see what you mean. thats cool. so then you use the 110 t$ ,play in tourneys and turn it into actual cash if you win right?

That, or sell it for 99% of the value.

Indian Givah · Mar 27, 2013

http://www.rakeback.com/rakeback-calculator/

just a rake calculator.. calculate .25/.50 at 16 tables for 10 hours.. maybe to many hours for the normal grinder............................. but even then a lot of people on these sites that dont have enough tables to play 16 tables at .25/.50 play other stakes as well above this. so maybe 7+ tables at 50NL than another 5+ at 100NL, so on and so forth.

S93 · Mar 27, 2013

vinylspiros said:
yea sure it does. i think by them time your at gold star you have unlocked maybe like 50 to 100 bucks total but the thing is that you have to grind so many thousands of dollars to get there that the 50 or 100$ that you purchase through fpp's/unlock dont really feel like compensation.but hey!, free money is free money.

Yeah you can buy bonuses for the FPPs but asuming you can maintain any kind of decent win rate at the FPP sats, they offer a much $ return per FPP.

Indian Givah · Mar 27, 2013

if you really want to learn about the fpp's, this seems like a reliable source.

http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/issue47/pokerstars-vip.php

i quickly skimmed through it and it SEEMS like it goes quite into depth about PS and their fpp's

vinylspiros · Mar 27, 2013

tenbob said:
That, or sell it for 99% of the value.

how and to who?

Daniel72 · Mar 27, 2013

Its a little bit weird, that cash game grinders have to play tournaments to get some cash for the fpp´s.
But PokerStars also has these stellar rewards (and milestone bonusses ?) and these are real cash.

S93 · Mar 27, 2013

Daniel72 said:
Its a little bit weird, that cash game grinders have to play tournaments to get some cash for the fpp´s.
But PokerStars also has these stellar rewards (and milestone bonusses ?) and these are real cash.

Just sell them for 99% value.

vinylspiros · Mar 27, 2013

dmorris68 said:
If you think gold or platinum is tough, try grinding for SNE. Relatively few people actually ever make it. Then again there were a couple of top high-stakes grinders that would make it in like the first 3 months of the year. Oh, and you'd never make it single tabling, multi-tabling is a must.

VIP programs are most lucrative only to very high volume players, those that pay like $3K+ a month in rake. Below that, which applies to the vast majority of players, pure rakeback is a better deal. Of course sites like PS don't give you a choice, but other sites do (or did).

Yea man ,i hear you loud and clear. i sometimes wonder how hard it is to get supernove alite. i only play zoom when playing cash. i can easily double table it and even open up a third if im feeling crispy. i wonder what double tabling zoom 's equivalent is when multitabling. is it like playing 8 tables? 15 tables? i mean handwise?, cause im pretty sure that if i had like a 4-5 k roll and double tabled 100NL,i would probably be eble to get supernova elite in 4-5 months if playing like 5 k hands a day. do you know how long it would take?

p.s im not sure if the 5 k hands a day is an exageration but i think if your playing zoom its possible if you put in the hours.

indahood193 · Mar 28, 2013

i see about the rakeback thing, but that is a bit shoddy how you have to use your fpp's, then cash in a satellite or whatever, and then sell them online, in order to gain actual rakeback. or maybe that is just me haha

acky100 · Mar 28, 2013

vinylspiros said:
dont think theres anyway you can make a living from rakeback.NO WAY. its just something alittle extra on the side that for most of us means nothing. cause its of minimal value compared to what weve gambled.

Thousands of people make a living from the rake on stars anyways. Its pretty easy to get supernova and 100,000 fpp's = $1600 cash bonus.

So you're kinda right that noones gonna make a living from the rake if they're not supernova, but anyone serious about making a living from poker would manage supernova pretty quickly, it's why theres literally thousands of breakeven russian players that play short stacked etc.

I played about 4 and a half hours last night and got 3500 fpp's, if i did 9 hours a day for a month that'd be a tasty $3200 if i managed to break even at the tables, now think about all them breakeven russian short stackers, they can very easily 24+ table where i struggle playing more than 12, because they play a very robotic raise or fold game, so as much as they annoy me, i can see why they do what they do.

vinylspiros · Mar 28, 2013

acky100 said:
Thousands of people make a living from the rake on stars anyways. Its pretty easy to get supernova and 100,000 fpp's = $1600 cash bonus.

So you're kinda right that noones gonna make a living from the rake if they're not supernova, but anyone serious about making a living from poker would manage supernova pretty quickly, it's why theres literally thousands of breakeven russian players that play short stacked etc.

I played about 4 and a half hours last night and got 3500 fpp's, if i did 9 hours a day for a month that'd be a tasty $3200 if i managed to break even at the tables, now think about all them breakeven russian short stackers, they can very easily 24+ table where i struggle playing more than 12, because they play a very robotic raise or fold game, so as much as they annoy me, i can see why they do what they do.

you made 3500 fpp's in 4 hours? WOW,thats pretty sick. im sure its possible but i never played the limits your playing so i wouldnt know really. which limits do you play in order to make those kind of fpp's?

i mean generally what limits does someone have to play in order to get supernove elite in 1 month.? can u get it if you double table zoom at 100NL?
one more question acky cause i know your more experienced. if your zooming ,whats the equivalent in playing multitables? ( hands per hour). meaning how many normal 6 max tables do you have to open to get the same amount of hands as if you were zooming?

how can online players make a living from rake?

indahood193

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