Can we out-bet the Rake?

dj11 · Dec 26, 2012

I have been chastised about my rake concerns in the past, suggesting I should not concern myself with rake considerations.

Sorry, but I just can't shake those concerns. Might be because I prefer Hi/Lo games, where the rake is obviously of more concern.

I would really appreciate a ring person to detail what it is we should not be concerned about.

WVHillbilly · Dec 26, 2012

No one with any sense would ever say that.

dj11 · Dec 26, 2012

There is a post at 2+2 in the ACR thread showing a pot of 23 cents and a rake of 27 cents. Which helps explain why the WPN games are dead. They have 2 rakes going on each table, maybe even 3 on some. The normal table rake, the bbj rake, and the Beast rake.

Add in that the rake is usually hidden, and hard to find, and my concerns remain.

And who says I have any sense.

domeburglar · Dec 26, 2012

dj11 said:
There is a post at 2+2 in the ACR thread showing a pot of 23 cents and a rake of 27 cents. Which helps explain why the WPN games are dead. They have 2 rakes going on each table, maybe even 3 on some. The normal table rake, the bbj rake, and the Beast rake.

Add in that the rake is usually hidden, and hard to find, and my concerns remain.

And who says I have any sense.

On WPN you chooose to play in the bad beat/beast tables with added rake there are also tables without that and standard rake.. but most people dont play on those lol

i think once you get to higher levels it becomes of less concern.. but i can definitely see what ur saying about hi-lo having a concern i mean if you end up heads up in a hand theres a good chance youll end up chopping and losing money lol

Cafeman · Dec 27, 2012

This month I've played 13k hands @ 25NL 6max. I've just worked it out and I've paid ~10bb/100 in rake (€317). Just lol.

As for concern, I guess since it's capped, we need to mostly concern ourselves with moving up!

WVHillbilly · Dec 27, 2012

Cafeman31 said:
This month I've played 13k hands @ 25NL 6max. I've just worked it out and I've paid ~10bb/100 in rake (€317). Just lol.

As for concern, I guess since it's capped, we need to mostly concern ourselves with moving up!

That can't be right can it? When I was playing rake was always about 2.5bb/100.

Cafeman · Dec 27, 2012

I've since been trying to work out how it can be the case (cos it does seem absurdly high). Those figures are based on what HM2 is tracking. Has HM2 messed it up? Maybe. Basically ps.fr is 6.5% rake with a €3 cap. That's a lot at these stakes, but I just don't know how it can work out as 10bb/100 - which is basically the same as my WR over that sample.

The good news is, I'm now back to playing 50

Sori · Dec 27, 2012

wow, I read this thread and went to my database as well. PT4 says I have paid $75 in rake at 4NL over 19.4k hands. Unless I am messing something up I am paying just under 10bb/100 hands as well. I did not realize how ridiculous that number was until just now.

Stupidly, I've only been getting rakeback for the last couple thousand hands as I thought you needed to deposit in order to get rake back and I freerolled my BR. 35% rakeback at least gets this number down a bit.

WVHillbilly · Dec 27, 2012

WVHillbilly said:
That can't be right can it? When I was playing rake was always about 2.5bb/100.

My mistake here actually. I was thinking about my rakeBACK being about 2.5bb/100 which means rake itself would have been pretty close to 9 or 10bb/100. It's just such a crazy number.

Pascal-lf · Dec 27, 2012

Café plays at Pokerstars.fr and the French govt tax each pot so it's hardly a fair comparison to any other site apart from Frenchie ones

SofaKingCrazy · Dec 27, 2012

I've noticed the incredible rake being collected on the BBJ table (ones in blue) as well.

My adjustments was to tighten up a little and always pre raise. There is a cap on the rake pre and post flop the rake is normal.

PS Here is some info on what I found at the tables. This was for NLHE 6max but it seems to apply across all games in blue.

If 4 players limp it is at least a 30% rake.

If the SB limps into the BB the pot will be less than either player has in it. Example: 5c/10c would be 20c total which is devided into 11c rake and 9c pot.

if button raises 3x - SB folds - BB calls = 65c / pot =52c rake = 13c
It's appearing to me that 3x is just standard to get in because of the amount of rake for limping

Cafeman · Dec 27, 2012

Yes, the bloody French

Here's (in English) how my rake is calculated:-

http://www.pokerstars.fr/en/salle-de-poker/prelevement/

So it's 6.5% and for the most part €3 cap.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/rake/

For some of you playing ps.com it appears to be 4.5% with a $2 cap.

Quite the difference!

benevg · Dec 30, 2012

dj11 said:
I have been chastised about my rake concerns in the past, suggesting I should not concern myself with rake considerations.

Sorry, but I just can't shake those concerns. Might be because I prefer Hi/Lo games, where the rake is obviously of more concern.

I would really appreciate a ring person to detail what it is we should not be concerned about.

you should not be concerned with the rake you pay. the rake is part of the rules you accepted when you signed up. if you did not accept rules when you signed up, that means you failed at reading

but really, why? 2 main reasons:
1) if you are a marginally winning/losing player and the rake makes you go under, then you just need to get better, that is all there is to it. also, thanks for making the games better for the rest of us

2) if you do not want to pay that rake, nobody makes you, right? quit poker. or go play in a live casino, see what they charge...

let me know if you have any further questions on that topic.

Cafeman31 said:
I've since been trying to work out how it can be the case (cos it does seem absurdly high). Those figures are based on what HM2 is tracking. Has HM2 messed it up? Maybe. Basically ps.fr is 6.5% rake with a €3 cap. That's a lot at these stakes, but I just don't know how it can work out as 10bb/100 - which is basically the same as my WR over that sample.

The good news is, I'm now back to playing 50

so your base winrate is 20bb/100 and you pay half of it in rake, eh? have fun back at 100 soon

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