What leaks do you see in my stats?

Seraphim · Jun 26, 2015

50k hand sample.
hands are a mix of 5, 10, 25nl.

vpip: 17
pfr: 12
3bet: 3.7
4bet: 4.3
Call pf 3 bet: 13
Squeeze: 3
3bet steal: 4.5
Fold to steal: 85
Went to showdown: 23
Won showdown: 60
Cbet flop: 70
Cbet turn: 49
Af: 3

TryTo · Jun 29, 2015

Good tight stats. It may be worth to lift up 3bet a little and to defend blinds more often.

Figaroo2 · Jul 2, 2015

Depends if its 6 max or full ring or both combined.
I suspect its a bit of both as its too tight for 6 max and just a above optimal for full ring
3 bet looks a bit low... Full ring optimal is 5%, 6 max 7-8%
4 bet is a little high 2.5-3.5 is better. Its ok as long as you are winning more than 50% of your 4 bets, 4 betting too much can be a big leak though.
fold to 3 bet is way too high... if you are only calling 13% of 3 bets then they (and I) will 3 bet you even more, this may be why you are having to 4 bet more than optimal.
Call more especially in position with an ace suited or playable hands that flop well rather than small to mid pairs. Ax suited sort of hands will have plenty of equity against his 99 TT JJ QQ 3 betting from the blinds.
Optimal Squeeze is the same % as optimal 3 betting.
WTSD is ok, just a little low, 25% is better which is why your won showdown is up at 60. Look to call a little more when there are busted flush draws on the board and you have a bluffcatcher

Marginal · Jul 2, 2015

I mean I hate just looking at stats like that but the first couple things that stick out are your 3 bet is a little low, your went to show down is low and thus your won at showdown is high

I mean, stats mean nothing tbh, find something that works. obviously you cant be exploitable in any situation but you cant just say oh you need to 3 bet x %always etc etc

A2345Razz · Jul 2, 2015

3B too low, giving stealer the pot too much. At higher limits or if your shorthanded you'll get exploited (raped) badly.

I don't agree that 17 percent VPIP is above optimal for FR depending on style and postflop skill. I definitely wouldn't suggest over 20 or even 19 usually, but 16/18.5% is around there.

XXPXXP · Jul 3, 2015

Fold to steal too much!
cash table, your blinds is leaking too much money!

try to find your strategy to defend your blinds.

John A · Jul 6, 2015

Marginal said:
I mean I hate just looking at stats like that but the first couple things that stick out are your 3 bet is a little low, your went to show down is low and thus your won at showdown is high

I mean, stats mean nothing tbh, find something that works. obviously you cant be exploitable in any situation but you cant just say oh you need to 3 bet x %always etc etc

Stats mean nothing, so play 50% of your hands!

Marginal · Jul 7, 2015

John A said:
Stats mean nothing, so play 50% of your hands!

Thanks for adding a bit of retardation To the threAd

John A · Jul 7, 2015

Hehe... you have to admit, your statement is a bit silly.

Stats do mean a lot of things. They are huge indicators of what a person is doing correct or incorrect, and when used wisely in conjunction with several stats, you can know and tell a person exactly how they are approach the game and the holes they have in their games.

Now just using one stat, say 22% VPIP, you won't know much. You have have two players with that same number, one is a huge winner, and one is a huge loser. But when you use that stat in conjunction with WTSD, positional VPIP, etc... you can use those stats to know why the losing player is losing playing the same VPIP.

It's just a personal thing to me when I hear that poker meme, "stats don't mean anything" since I do stat analysis. It's amusing... no harm meant.

Jondalf · Jul 7, 2015

I have no clue about those numbers even xD

Marginal · Jul 7, 2015

John you missed my point, I'm saying you shouldn't aim to play to a certain star because that's the wrong approach

The point is you have 500 million ways to play the game you need to find what works for you. You shouldn't aim for a number you just aim to beat a game

I've played in games where playing 50% of hands was correct so my point is don't aim for a number

Seraphim · Jul 8, 2015

I agree my blinds and 3bet stats are weak. Something to consider is that I am playing on bovada so I don't expect to be getting exploited nearly as much as other sites. I've been trying to add more 3bet bluffs into my range. This is 6max, btw.

TeUnit · Jul 8, 2015

stats look pretty good to me

think you may want to defend your blinds more which should increase your 3b number as well

John A · Jul 8, 2015

Marginal said:
John you missed my point, I'm saying you shouldn't aim to play to a certain star because that's the wrong approach

The point is you have 500 million ways to play the game you need to find what works for you. You shouldn't aim for a number you just aim to beat a game

I've played in games where playing 50% of hands was correct so my point is don't aim for a number

I think that's tough to get from your original statement, but you can change it and add whatever you want. I just think when someone is posting something with stats, which are indicators over decent sample sizes of what leaks someone has, to say stats don't mean anything doesn't make much sense. But it doesn't really matter.

I think OP has some good clues to work from. Now he just needs to learn when and why do to each play so that his stats fall into a more profitable range.

Marginal · Jul 8, 2015

John A said:
I think that's tough to get from your original statement, but you can change it and add whatever you want. I just think when someone is posting something with stats, which are indicators over decent sample sizes of what leaks someone has, to say stats don't mean anything doesn't make much sense. But it doesn't really matter.

I think OP has some good clues to work from. Now he just needs to learn when and why do to each play so that his stats fall into a more profitable range.

To be fair Im a live player and you are peddling leak busters in your signature so obv we will not agree on this.

And i didnt change my position, i clearly said we shouldnt be aiming to do anything x% of the time.

You cant look at someone who says i 3 bet 5% and say, no you should 3 bet 8%. The more effective way to analyse something is to look at more granular details to see where things have gone wrong.

What do i know though.

A2345Razz · Jul 8, 2015

Marginal said:
To be fair Im a live player and you are peddling leak busters in your signature so obv we will not agree on this.

And i didnt change my position, i clearly said we shouldnt be aiming to do anything x% of the time.

You cant look at someone who says i 3 bet 5% and say, no you should 3 bet 8%. The more effective way to analyse something is to look at more granular details to see where things have gone wrong.

What do i know though.

It really depends on sample size....

With a large and meaninful enough sample, you certainly can say that more often than not X ranges are going to be more profitable than Y ranges statistically.

That is the power of a large sample size.

Lostmyhouse · Jul 8, 2015

Hope you only play full ring because in a 6max its pretty bad but in fullring good i guess.

Damn 17 12. How are you guys able to basically folding every hand. 6max ftw!

IPlay · Jul 8, 2015

Your stats are waayyy to tight and you will only be a very marginal/break even player at best at 6 max. But you seem to have a nice solid game down that you just need to open up a little and should probably start with defending your blinds more often and for sure 3 betting steal attempts more often. How often if ever do you make steal attempts? Only calling 13% of 3bets is kind of crazy but it is Bovada so people are not going to be aware that they can almost 3 bet you with any two cards profitably.

c9h13no3 · Jul 8, 2015

Seraphim said:
50k hand sample.
Hands are a mix of 5, 10, 25nl.

vpip: 17
pfr: 12
3bet: 3.7
4bet: 4.3
Call pf 3 bet: 13
Squeeze: 3
3bet steal: 4.5
Fold to steal: 85
Went to showdown: 23
Won showdown: 60
Cbet flop: 70
Cbet turn: 49
Af: 3

Be more aggressive preflop, what is your steal %?

How to apply this advice: Post preflop spots in hand analysis where you think you might be able to be more aggressive.

John A · Jul 9, 2015

Marginal said:
To be fair Im a live player and you are peddling leak busters in your signature so obv we will not agree on this.

And i didnt change my position, i clearly said we shouldnt be aiming to do anything x% of the time.

You cant look at someone who says i 3 bet 5% and say, no you should 3 bet 8%. The more effective way to analyse something is to look at more granular details to see where things have gone wrong.

What do i know though.

Actually, with proper sample size you can say this. But again, those stat ranges are indicators of play that is missing a higher EV. Then you're correct, you want to look at hands where that person missed potential profitable 3-betting situations and analyze them individually. This person is opening 35% and folding to 3-bets 60%, why did you not 3-bet here? And so on. Then you use that stat range as a tool for learning where more profitable 3-bet bluffing opportunities arise.

I was trying be gracious in saying that you can change your position, because what you were in essence saying was that OP was a fool for posting 50k stat samples, and everyone responding was wasting their time. I don't think that was your intention. Clearly everyone that's responding in this thread recognizes that value that stat ranges bring to online analysis.

But I understand what you were trying to say. You don't want to force trying to play a particular way to meet a stat. You want to approach learning by understanding why a play is best. I believe most online players understand this and aren't ruled by stats. They just use them as clues to help them zero in on weaker areas of their game. And if you think about it, it's a pretty smart approach.

matiusaa · Jul 14, 2015

I think that what you are doing is wrong. You shouldn't play to have some specifix stats, you should play accordingly to each opponent: YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE MAN, NOT THE GAME. You won't do well if you play abc in 25NL and higher, you game should depend on whom you are playing. Hope this helps you.

NorskNewman · Jul 14, 2015

One can learn a lot from posting stats and receiving quality feedback from a knowledgable player base such as cardschat. From people who are actually playing the game.

A2345Razz · Jul 14, 2015

matiusaa said:
I think that what you are doing is wrong. You shouldn't play to have some specifix stats, you should play accordingly to each opponent: YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE MAN, NOT THE GAME. You won't do well if you play abc in 25NL and higher, you game should depend on whom you are playing. Hope this helps you.

Well, when it comes to live poker, you're absolutely right.

When it comes online large sample size multitabling, you're quite wrong.

When you have a proper sample of at least say 50k hands, you can draw some conclusions based on stats.

What leaks do you see in my stats?

Seraphim

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TryTo

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Figaroo2

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Marginal

Junior Member

A2345Razz

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XXPXXP

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John A

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Marginal

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John A

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Jondalf

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Marginal

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Seraphim

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TeUnit

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John A

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Marginal

Junior Member

A2345Razz

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Lostmyhouse

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IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK

John A

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matiusaa

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NorskNewman

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A2345Razz

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