More Important...better pusher or better folder?

jbosker84 · Dec 11, 2018

I've always watched some of the greatest poker players and have been more impressed with the folds than the calls. It's natural human instinct to pay and see what's in the "mystery box", but when you can resist that strong pull, now that makes a great poker player. I've been in a few 3-way all-in situations with pretty solid post flop hands and folded just to find out I made the right decision. It hasn't helped my bankroll yet but hopefully it will in the future.

freestocks · Dec 11, 2018

Folding is the hardest thing when you're a newbie. It takes practice. Knowing when it is time to fold will help your bankroll.

takinitSLEAZEE · Dec 11, 2018

I think folding takes more discipline compared to pushing. Leaning on a weak bet or 3-betting can eventually become an art-form for a lot of players.

Cobra180 · Dec 11, 2018

Hard call. Think both is very important. Get a good balance of both

ayahuasca · Dec 15, 2018

It's much more difficult to fold, you need to feel the situation, fold even with aces if you should and not to regret it.

roger perkins · Dec 15, 2018

One of the BIGGEST leaks in anyone's game is learning when to fold. With experience you either learn to fold big hands when beat or lose your bankroll. The best advice is to go with your gut based on the information you have about the player/players you are going up against. In poker like everything else knowledge is power.

terryk · Dec 15, 2018

There is nothing more frustrating than an aggressive player folding at the "right" times,,,,

bellicoso · Dec 15, 2018

Learning to fold is important for any player, imho. And it's not easy to to do. It takes experience, wisdom and discipline.

playinggameswithu · Dec 15, 2018

Cash games folding is a penny saved is a penny earned. In MTT when you are pot committed you just have to call and hope they didnt 7% or less you.

kristersb123 · Dec 15, 2018

Folding is harder than push of my opinion. If I have really good hand than I can easily push but if you have like big pot and river could get your opponent something better than it's hard to fold for me

duson · Dec 15, 2018

I would say folding is more important to become a better player. Recognizing that what you have can be beat, and that another player might actually have it can get you much farther than knowing when to jam.

fadisn · Dec 28, 2018

I see your point, but also agree with ppl here, folding is harder than push ! Especially if you have spent a good % of your stack betting and almost sure that the opponent is bluffing !

drubas · Dec 28, 2018

Great observation!

Hmm, well, quite difficult and you probably won´t find the perfect answer whether to fold or push. In my opinion it highly depends on the strategy your opponents go for.

Greets!

ph_il · Dec 28, 2018

fadisn said:
I see your point, but also agree with ppl here, folding is harder than push ! Especially if you have spent a good % of your stack betting and almost sure that the opponent is bluffing !

Why would you fold if you think your opponent is bluffing?

ph_il · Dec 28, 2018

They're both important given the situation. Why focus on either/or? There are spots where you need to have a good opening jam range/3bet jam range/4 bet jam range that puts you in a +EV situation. There are times where you'll need to able to fold in key spots preflop, flop/turn/river based on a ton of variables. Both go hand-in-hand. Someone might say 'you can't win a tournament if you cant fold and get busted out', but you can't win an MTT if you are accumulating chips either.

If I'm being honest, a lot of weak/tight MTT players in the microstakes are often folding way too often in spots they should be jamming. I see them all the time only open/3bet jamming with the top of their range and folding everything else. Sometimes to the point where they're they have 2BBs UTG and they fold J2s because it's too weak of a hand.

Folding is easy. I see the same weak/tight microstakes players doing it all the time and they're super exploitable. If they don't have a good preflop hand, fold. Miss the flop, fold. Check raised, fold. Thin bluff, fold.

So, in this situation, for most weak/tight players, jamming is harder than folding.

fadisn · Dec 28, 2018

ohshootmybad said:
Why would you fold if you think your opponent is bluffing?

Not sure that I cleared my point here, but it has happened with me many times, jamming in bets such it goes so high % of my stack, so risking to loose my seat, and suddenly stuck with unlogical raiser, sometimes a bluffer or smart guy pretending to be a bluffer, so I regret my joining from the beginning! And keep thinking I should have folded.
One may say you should never bet & jam on less than AK, but when you see many high bets won by a low straight ! I really don't know what is correct thing to do here!

akmost · Dec 28, 2018

Pot controlling and folding marginal hands is something you will find easier in mid-high stakes.Also know when to open jam or 3bet jam is also something which demands experience and good grasp of the game! Jam only the top of your range will cost you profit in the long run etc.

Also think about the SPR(stack to pot ratio) and the pot odds in some marginal spots of yours. Some studying will make easier some future plays.IMO they are both important.

tauri103 · Dec 28, 2018

yes it is true that it is by folding these hands at the right time that we manage to survive in a tournament.the last time I folded a pair of QQ preflop after seeing two of my opponents were in position of I will have been eliminated and I would never have managed to rank 5th this evening.

jofieloviedo · Dec 28, 2018

Both of them

I think they both are really important. we need to be smart to make a fold in the right moment and we have to think what hand the other player could have on the table. Think makes fold is a bit more difficult cause´most of the time we think that if we fold we are losing but the true is that poker is like this and on the other hand we need to pushers cause´ the point of poker is win the maximum we could

bttrkks · Dec 28, 2018

Yeah man, im always so proud of myself when i lay down and secure my stack. Especially in Tournaments i have the feeling, that i mostly get a better hand later which pays the previous fold off. And even if not, at least i can say, that i played the correct way

619Leafs · Dec 28, 2018

In poker, discipline in folding is one of the keys to success in victory. It may not be that exact tournament but consistent good tactics and discipline equals to consistent winning.

Amanda A · Dec 28, 2018

The great players have an uncanny ability to know when they are behind and fold even huge hands and know when their opponent is weak and a push or big bet will take it down. I remember reading Doyle's book and he said there were nights he didn't have a hand but he put his opponents to the test and they didn't have the nuts so they folded and he picked up a lot of pots where he didn't have the best hand. That's a great skill to have as well.

This Fish Chums · Dec 30, 2018

My vote is for being a better folder for tournaments and a better pusher for cash games. Let's look at the absolute extremes. Knowing when to fold every time in a tournament will save your entire tournament, but knowing when to push every time is only going to win you some extra chips whose true value degrades over time.
Now, in cash games I would say the opposite. Knowing when to fold may save you a few dollars here and there, but knowing when to push is going to immediately increase your bankroll.

jaggafrig · Dec 30, 2018

I think to be a better folder is key protect the chips

rikisrakis · Dec 30, 2018

I'm not entirely sure how you would classify a player as a specifically "good pusher" or "good folder", as being good at one somewhat implies being good at the other; they're both related to accurately analyzing your hand strength. However I think a new player should certainly focus more on understanding when to fold in marginal cases rather than trying to squeeze out every possible +EV shove. The main reason for this is that someone who overshoots and folds too much will only lose so much EV in opportunity cost, but someone who overshoots their shove range will lose a whole lot more.

More Important...better pusher or better folder?

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