PokerStars is at it again! Two new variants offered

I have not played them yet but I will check it out, but I a sure
that bad beats are the number one reallity.

The deep water hold'em sounds like a thinly veiled cash grab, or "rake trap". The tempest hold'em I could see appealing to some players looking purely to gamble it up and minimize the skill edge, especially when intoxicated. I never get involved in these novel formats because of how quickly they seem to come and go. I am a fan of the Showtime variant, however.

I hate tempest .its only rake take game. i dont play deepwater. pokerstars joking these months.

New variants of the game introducing more action are a great step towards attracting recreational players. I also liked the graphics of the new variants with a maritime theme.

Deep Water is essentially a 3 blind structure with a variable ante, and I see nothing wrong with that. Sure all the blinds and antes will create more action, but if you would rather play a cash game, where most hands end preflop, to save rake, you are completely missing the point.

Tempest on the other hand seem pointless. Less than 10BB push/fold is a completely solved form of poker, and if you want to play that kind of game, then why not just play tournaments especially turbos or hyper turbos.

Had to give this a try, and Deep Water was pretty much as expected. This to note is, that trackers and HUDs do work, which will please some and displease others. When the antes are large, large open raises makes sense, and maybe this is also why, you can buy in for 150 BB or "giant blind", as they call it, rather than the traditional 100 BB. So even though the lowest limit is 10NL, this will tend to play more like 15NL, at least when the ante is big.

As with all these time limited games on Stars seating is random, and I actually think, this is the way, online cash games have to go. The traditional poker lobby is to much of a faff, and surely turn off recreational players. Another trend, that might eventually carry over to regular games, is to start the action just a little higher, in this case with 10NL rather than 2NL. GG Poker has reportedly done that already.

As for Tempest I ominously enjoyed it and actually ended up putting in 200+ hands. Its the ultimate chill out stress free poker, where you never have to make any difficult decisions at all. If you have just some experience with short stacked poker, everything is just almost completely automatic. And even if you get it slightly wrong now and then, its no big disaster, since equities run close preflop anyway, and everybody is getting it in sort of light.

Unsurpricingly the rake for this game is fairly high with around 13 BB/100, if you run a VPIP of 30%. The speed of the game is also very high, because all the action end preflop, so hands per hour seem to be more in line with Zoom games than regular tables. For sure this is a brilliant rake generator for Poker Stars, but if there are enough players in the game, who stack off to wide, which could seem to be the case, this could still be long term beatable. I am however not going to put in 50k hands to figure that out

Once again, greetings to all!My strictly personal opinion about innovations.Yes tried but did not note anything positive in these two disciplines!It's too extreme and I don't like it.

valeski 28 said:

Hello,I think both games will have the same ending as the previous ones.....failure

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These games are planned from the beginning to be offered for a limited time only, so that they can continue to offer players new experiences. So I would not say, the previous ones have "failed". They likely did the job, which they were intended for, which was to keep recreational players coming back to the site and redepositing.

I will observe some action for 2-3 days on Tempest game and I will try it Thursday or Wednesday , I can afford this with my bankroll , the other no , lol

fundiver199 said:

These games are planned from the beginning to be offered for a limited time only, so that they can continue to offer players new experiences. So I would not say, the previous ones have "failed". They likely did the job, which they were intended for, which was to keep recreational players coming back to the site and redepositing.

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I agree with you for the most part.

Not every new variant they offer takes off but they do hope some stick and their customers enjoy them, regardless of the rake. (This could be a deflection - have fun, make a little bit and you won't notice how high the rake is) If they are not making money (after all, they are a business) then they have to change it up again after a 'grace' period - this sounds like a standard marketing strategy. Without knowing what their business plan is, I do believe they are working hard at trying to keep people interested. Folks would have to admit, PokerStars can be innovative and are not afraid to try.

Shells said:

I agree with you for the most part.


Not every new variant they offer takes off but they do hope some stick and their customers enjoy them, regardless of the rake. (This could be a deflection - have fun, make a little bit and you won't notice how high the rake is) If they are not making money (after all, they are a business) then they have to change it up again after a 'grace' period - this sounds like a standard marketing strategy. Without knowing what their business plan is, I do believe they are working hard at trying to keep people interested. Folks would have to admit, PokerStars can be innovative and are not afraid to try.

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I think, short deck is intended as a permanent addition, so likely they were also hoping, that short deck Spins would catch on. Which they did not. However all the special games, which you can play nowhere else other than on Stars, have been advertised as time limited only.

I remember Daniel Negreanu talking about that, when he was still a representative for the site, and they started to bring them out last year. The ShowTime, the UnFoldEm, whatever they were called. So I am pretty sure, this Deep Water and Tempest thing also has an expiration date on them already, although we dont know, exactly what that date is.

Personally I have no issue with these games. If they bring new people into poker, or old people back, that is great for everyone. And if we dont like a particular format, then we can just stick to the normal games.

Both of these games, in my opinion, are predatory. PokerStars did everything so that the bank artificially inflated to incredible sizes even at the pre-flop stage, and “under the bucket” they increased the rake cap at all limits. But, as we know, an amateur should have fun playing, few people are interested in rake. And where there is a weak player and there is at least a ghostly chance of earning, there will be regulars. Now this axiom is being tested on Spin & Go Flash: regulars clearly understand that the rink is strictly negative against each other, but continue to play this “novelty”, because at first there will be an increased number of chips.

fundiver199 said:

These games are planned from the beginning to be offered for a limited time only, so that they can continue to offer players new experiences. So I would not say, the previous ones have "failed". They likely did the job, which they were intended for, which was to keep recreational players coming back to the site and redepositing.

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I agree. Poker is not just for Pro Players or for those who want to be Pros or gain money with it. A lot of players just want to have some fun throwing money on new games like those. Well I did observe how it goes and it seems to be fun, but not Poker as we like to learn and play.

Personally I don't even look at the tabs other than to find the few variants that have been around forever and that I want to play. The only time I notice the new variants is when I see them mentioned in a Cardschat thread like this one.

That said, I do like Spin & Gos and they have not been around forever so I guess it is good to try out new things every once in a while.

Yes it is good to try new things sometimes, but in the case of the "Tempest" I prefer not to haha. You have to wait for good hands to push All-in, but at the same time that is the giant blind, eating your money and when you go All-in, you are against two, three or four players. Even an AA won't save us that much haha.

kind of disappointing. i play alot more partypoker than stars these days.

I think i should try a least one day the new format called Deep Water. Hope i ll like it

nuttea said:

Both of these games, in my opinion, are predatory. PokerStars did everything so that the bank artificially inflated to incredible sizes even at the pre-flop stage, and “under the bucket” they increased the rake cap at all limits.

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Push-fold games like Tempest are likely not beatable long term, because its difficult to make huge mistakes, when your only decision is to push or fold for 10BB. A non-beatable poker game is however hardly any more "predatory" than casino games, which are per definition always unbeatable.

As for ante games, they are not new to online poker, and there is hardly anything "predatory" about a 3 blind structure. This is pretty common in live poker, so why should it not exist online?

The rake cap was only increase at high stakes, which 99% of people dont play anyway, so its a non-issue. Also the standard rake cap on Stars is lower than on any other site, so they are just charging the same for high stakes Deep Water games, as other sites have been charging the hole time.

I am not a big fan of Stars in general, but I see a lot of negative knee-jerk reflexes to anything, Stars do, which is kind of silly. While everything is not good, everything is certainly not bad either, and at the end of the day, we are all free to not play, if we dont like, what is being offered.

Seems to be lots of really bad players on those DeepWater tables (& a few regs. I recognize from other formats... but not many tbh). I'd never seen them before today.. lol.

.... & after 15mins.
meh... there's REALLY bad players on these tables (a GREAT thing!) but overall, I didn't particularly enjoy the game.

I think they'd be better off reviving some old school stuff.. ie. mixed games

Poker Orifice said:

Seems to be lots of really bad players on those DeepWater tables (& a few regs. I recognize from other formats... but not many tbh). I'd never seen them before today.. lol.

.... & after 15mins.
meh... there's REALLY bad players on these tables (a GREAT thing!) but overall, I didn't particularly enjoy the game.


I think they'd be better off reviving some old school stuff.. ie. mixed games

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I dont mind the DeepWater game, but I have also not found any urge to play it again after my first try. Ante cash games existed already, and I never play them. As for the 3-blind structure it also left me a little cold, and I dont think, its that nessesary at 6-max.

If the field is softer, that is certainly great, but for PT4 users like me its a disadvantage, that our tracker will not import these hands, which also mean, the HUD will not pop up. So all in all if I was to play cash games on Stars, I would probably just go to the regular tables.

They do like jokes, but it is good fos entertaining

Shells said:

....I'm sure this is not the end of their inventiveness.

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That's for sure!
Played in "Tempest", not liked....

I don't see Tempest in the lobby yet, just Deep Water format. I think it need an software update or Pokertars introduce this format only on few markets. :angel:

gabryyyel31 said:

I don't see Tempest in the lobby yet, just Deep Water format. I think it need an software update or Pokertars introduce this format only on few markets. :angel:

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There might be some markets, where its not available due to local regulations. You are not missing out on that much though

Hello everyone, I personally tried both games. What conclusions is complete random no poker is completely absent. This is just a lottery and nothing more. With this kind of poker, only more people are repelled than attracted.