Alderney suspends Full Tilt's operating license

absoluthamm said:

FullTilt did this to themselves.

Click to expand...

No, they didn't. If the American government hadn't poked their nose in everything would have been fine.

Stars did it without a problem.

Click to expand...

You don't know that they did it without a problem. What you know is that they did it, somehow. All credit to them for that, but they have completely changed their rake structure and a host of other things subsequently, so I think that the interference of the US government has hit them very, very hard.

Lets face it, this is not the first time that the US government has decided to stick their nose into things that don't really concern them, and I'm 100% certain that it won't be the last.

F4STFORW4RD said:

No, they didn't. If the American government hadn't poked their nose in everything would have been fine.You don't know that they did it without a problem. What you know is that they did it, somehow. All credit to them for that, but they have completely changed their rake structure and a host of other things subsequently, so I think that the interference of the US government has hit them very, very hard.

Lets face it, this is not the first time that the US government has decided to stick their nose into things that don't really concern them, and I'm 100% certain that it won't be the last.

Click to expand...

stars segregated the funds...ftp didnt

game over

and the plot thickens ... ugh.

So obv this guy knew this was coming start reading post #177
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-i-already-warned-2plus2-1047577/index12.html

xdeuceswild81xx said:

stars segregated the funds...ftp didnt

game over

Click to expand...

That's not the whole story though. One of the reasons Full Tilt doesn't appear to have segregated player funds is because (if I've done my reading correctly) the terms of their licence didn't require them to. On the face of it sure this seems stupid / reckless but as someone pointed out in a different thread commercial banks operate on exactly the same basis - they're required to keep a certain percentage of customer funds untouched in reserve but the rest they're free to play with / invest / loan out to other customers based on the (reasonable) expectation that not everybody is going to want their money at once. My reading of the Full Tilt situation is that their licence required something more along these lines. (Note that Poker Stars are licensed in a completely different jurisdiction that does require player funds to be segregaged as a condition of their licence)

So it's unlikely their licence is being suspended just because they didn't segregate funds. It's almost certainly related to the mismanagement of the company in other ways though.

Edit: on a barely-related note is there some kind of drug I can take or some trick to getting to like the Stars software? It's so ugly and icky and clunky and I hate their SnG structures and their lobby and the fact they've got a fold button up at times when you don't need one and so many other things an even changing the entire sound set to the Full Tilt sounds isn't making it better...

Exactly. If you went to withdraw all of the money from your bank account and they said that they couldn't because they spent it on a company picnic or lost it in the stock market, that would be on them, their fault, because they were using your funds for their spending, instead of just spending what their profits were. This is the same thing that Tilt did, so yes, they did it to themselves. If it wouldn't have been what happened with the US(which, like I said, I don't agree with the US doing this), then it probably would have happened somewhere down the road to them, because they were managing their money like idiots.

pitty that the gaming commissionand the DOJ let tilt payout to their players !
are they afraid they can not collect the heavy fines they want to charge from tilt
over our backs !!
nice result from a country that is ruled by major interest groups like the sports
gambling assocation and by the big casino's !
another great exsample from how the usa messes up the world !!

orangepeeleo said:

Moneybookers has stopped doing business with them as well.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-base-1059898/

Click to expand...

Got the same email ...so my withdrawal is gone

absoluthamm said:

Exactly. If you went to withdraw all of the money from your bank account and they said that they couldn't because they spent it on a company picnic or lost it in the stock market, that would be on them, their fault, because they were using your funds for their spending, instead of just spending what their profits were. This is the same thing that Tilt did, so yes, they did it to themselves. If it wouldn't have been what happened with the US(which, like I said, I don't agree with the US doing this), then it probably would have happened somewhere down the road to them, because they were managing their money like idiots.

Click to expand...

No, the bank wouldn't have "spent it on a company picnic" they would have been using it to lend out to other people, or doing other things which are designed to increase their profitability and therefore maximise returns for their shareholders. That's how businesses operate, they are there to maximise the return for their shareholders. The banks have already told people that they can't meet their commitments anyway, and that was why governments around the world had to bail them out.

The problems of the banks were caused by the banks being too greedy and taking too many risks, whereas the problems of Full Tilt were caused by a US government department poking their nose into things that don't really concern them.

Stick a fork in it. FTP is done.

RIP.


Hopefully someone buys the rights to the software at the bankruptcy auction and holds onto it for when all this US poker crap is sorted.

wolfie said:

pitty that the gaming commissionand the DOJ let tilt payout to their players !
are they afraid they can not collect the heavy fines they want to charge from tilt
over our backs !!
nice result from a country that is ruled by major interest groups like the sports
gambling assocation and by the big casino's !
another great exsample from how the usa messes up the world !!

Click to expand...

While this may or may not be the case, don't make the mistake of thinking the AGCC is some kind of Mickey Mouse puppet organisation like the Khanawake Gaming Commission. Alderney licenses and regulates a number of very large, very legitimate operators and there are reports that at least in part this current action is the result of some of Alderney's other licensees pressuring them for action because Full Tilt being allowed to continue operating in its current mismanaged / possibly insolvent state was starting to make them look bad by association: http://wickedchopspoker.com/full-tilt-poker-shut-down-alderney-suspends-license/

NoWuckingFurries said:

The problems of the banks were caused by the banks being too greedy and taking too many risks, whereas the problems of Full Tilt were caused by a US government department poking their nose into things that don't really concern them.

Click to expand...

BZZZZZT -- Wrong. Money Laundering is a crime that is well in the jurisdiction of the DOJ. Full Tilt did it to themselves by trying to be sneaky clever in getting around the UIEGA legislation by buying a bank. The corruption of the FT executives was caused by their intoxication over the amount of money they were making on the endeavor.

Full Tilt management screwed everybody on the planet by having a bad business model for the financials. They ignored Economics 101 (or didn't go to college). It showed the difference in maturity between Tilt and Stars in that Stars was able to recover from a catastrophic event.

It is interesting to wonder how long the FT "house of cards" (pun intended) would have stood if operations were not interrupted by the USDOJ actions.

OzExorcist said:

Edit: on a barely-related note is there some kind of drug I can take or some trick to getting to like the Stars software? It's so ugly and icky and clunky and I hate their SnG structures and their lobby and the fact they've got a fold button up at times when you don't need one and so many other things an even changing the entire sound set to the Full Tilt sounds isn't making it better...

Click to expand...

Margaret sorted out the asking whether she wants to show cards by checking TWO things instead of just one, by going into Options > Show/Mucking hands and making sure that as well as Muck Losing Hand you have also checked Don't Show Winning Hand.

The last hand section and player notes also seem a lot less user freindly, but I suppose it's just a case of getting used to it.

arahel_jazz said:

It is interesting to wonder how long the FT "house of cards" (pun intended)....

Click to expand...

Hahaha very good

1 down will UB and Absolute Poker be next ?

NoWuckingFurries said:

The problems of the banks were caused by the banks being too greedy and taking too many risks, whereas the problems of Full Tilt were caused by a US government department poking their nose into things that don't really concern them.

Click to expand...

Note also that if by "banks" you mean the likes of Lehman Brothers etc that caused the Global Financial Crisis a few years back then that's a very different kettle of fish from the commercial / retail / whatever the correct term in whatever country the given reader is in banks I was talking about above. But that's also largely irrelevant to the discussion in this thread so moving right along...

...seriously, is there some trick to getting to like the Stars software in general? Some kind of KoolAid I have to drink or something?

spunka said:

1 down will UB and Absolute Poker be next ?

Click to expand...

Already written them off

spunka said:

1 down will UB and Absolute Poker be next ?

Click to expand...

Probably, but probably not via the same route since IIRC they're still "licensed" by the Khanawake Gaming Commission and not a more respectable European jurisdiction. My bet at this stage is that Costa Rican labour laws (that's where their offices are based right?) will get them first.

OzExorcist said:

...seriously, is there some trick to getting to like the Stars software in general? Some kind of KoolAid I have to drink or something?

Click to expand...

Despite our reservations about the PS software, when we go to some other sites we have to contend with even worse software and tournaments that take forever to fill up, so we're trying to adapt!

I heard Jim Jones had some great KoolAid.

NoWuckingFurries said:

Margaret sorted out the asking whether she wants to show cards by checking TWO things instead of just one, by going into Options > Show/Mucking Hands and making sure that as well as Muck Losing Hand you have also checked Don't Show Winning Hand.

Click to expand...

Nah, I fixed that easily enough. I mean displaying the fold button when I'm still in a hand but nobody's bet on that street yet - I've got it to default to just check whether I click check or fold but what is the fold button even doing there in the first place? It seems about as stupid as having an all in button in a limit game or something... anywho, I'm digressing.

Sorry for all the people who really had an important sum of money there, but you're not likely to see it again...

And FT owners will be in lawsuits for quite along time while having rides with their ferrari paid with the money of everyone...

gg FT.... sigh...

And most important they knew it all along since april, as some ftp employee posted on 2+2, he even nailed the freaking date june 29th.!!!!

Neoblast said:

Sorry for all the people who really had an important sum of money there, but you're not likely to see it again...

And FT owners will be in lawsuits for quite along time while having rides with their ferrari paid with the money of everyone...

gg FT.... sigh...

And most important they knew it all along since april, as some ftp employee posted on 2+2, he even nailed the freaking date june 29th.!!!!

Click to expand...

What??? explain??

Stars addresses the situation: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...eaffirmed-isle-man-gaming-commission-1059973/

Cliffs: IoM Gaming Commission has reaffirmed that Stars is operating in accordance with its licensing conditions, no reason to expect similar actions against them at this stage, and I'm trying to at least see the funny side in Stars putting out an official response to Full Tilt's situation before Full Tilt themselves do...

Oil_Fan said:

What??? explain??

Click to expand...

Explanation: everybody's an expert with the benefit of hindsight

Oil_Fan said:

What??? explain??

Click to expand...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-i-already-warned-2plus2-1047577/index12.html Just keep on reading after post 177