When to fold aces preflop?

LankyLegs · Apr 25, 2008

Do you think that it is ok to fold aces preflop in the early stages of a big low stakes MTT when all of the idiots are going all in with anything. I have had aces twice in this situation ,called and then got outdrawn by low cards. I normally try to stay out of the way of the idiots but aces are to appealing and i can't resist calling. What would you have done? Fold or call.

icemonkey9 · Apr 25, 2008

Never ever ever. Never. You get cracked, big deal. Buy in again. You win a multiway where you are the favorite ... you have a crushing lead on the table.

narizblanco · Apr 25, 2008

If there are 4 or more ahead of you allin your hand is no longer favorite FOLD. I might fold if 3 ahead are allin also. Little less tha even there

4Aces · Apr 25, 2008

gtycoon · Apr 25, 2008

Interesting question.

Early in a tournament and several go all in? Oh yeah call.

Although, if you are close to the bubble in one of those tournaments where 1st through 9th (or whatever) all get the same prize (ie: Top 9 get a trip to wsop) and you have a nice chip lead or one of the chip leaders, you may want to fold them and just let the short stacks battle it out or get eaten by the blinds.

widowmaker89 · Apr 25, 2008

Always call here. Fold if there is less than 50% to win? thats rediculous, you are quadrupling up if you do win the odds are always in your favor.

Like gtycoon said, the only time to fold AA is in a satellite in which you are in good enough shape to be able to coast in, then if another big stack is in the hand it makes sense to fold it.

SeanyJ · Apr 25, 2008

narizblanco said:
If there are 4 or more ahead of you allin your hand is no longer favorite FOLD. I might fold if 3 ahead are allin also. Little less tha even there

Your hand is still a favourite against all of the others, you will have a higher percentage chance to win the hand than everyone else in the pot. Even if the entire table was all in ahead of you it would still be a really easy call.

The only time I would consider folding aces pre flop is when you're on the bubble of a satellite tournament and you can just fold your way to the prize.

PoochMasterFlex · Apr 26, 2008

you have no nuts and are a little school girl if u ever fold aces preflop.

odinscott · Apr 26, 2008

Well against the advice of ^^^ those guys. I think that if it is a tourney that you cant just rebuy in (like the Million, instead of a simple SAG), I would think twice about it. I mean say you are in the BB and 5 people are already allin ahead of you. Lets say it is the first hand, so everyone has you covered. Sure you are the favorite, but the odds are that at least one of those 5 hands are going to beat you in the end. I am of the thought that I can wait and get my money in in a better spot. That is not to say that I recommend folding aces as a rule, but I can see where it would make sense to do it. I mean AA is far from bullet proof, I have PT stats showing tons of times that it lost to only one hand. Why risk your tourney life when each of the other 5 hands has a 25% chance to beat you. Sure 75% sounds great, the problem is if you lose with AA 1 out of 4 times and there are already 5 other people in the pot... It has nothing to do with having no nuts, it has to do with running a marathon instead of running a sprint...

riverboatrat · Apr 26, 2008

The only time I have ever folded aces preflop was on the bubble of an mtt with 2 bigger stacks already all in before me, I folded and one of them made a set of kings.

I not only finished itm but made final table too

KerouacsDog · Apr 26, 2008

PoochMasterFlex said:
you have no nuts and are a little school girl if u ever fold aces preflop.

I LOL'd at this reply!

g3m1nn1 · Apr 26, 2008

like it has been said it depends, i would say: if in rebuy yes, if on the bubble in multi pot probably fold and if early in the tournament and multi allins not sure about opponents fold ( eventhought it is very hard

PokerVic · Apr 26, 2008

I'll agree with most. Unless you are on the bubble, or playing a satellite, don't fold aces preflop even if there are 8 people all-in in front of you. I'm sure someone will soon give you the math to explain why this is still +EV.

odinscott · Apr 27, 2008

PokerVic said:
I'll agree with most. Unless you are on the bubble, or playing a satellite, don't fold aces preflop even if there are 8 people all-in in front of you. I'm sure someone will soon give you the math to explain why this is still +EV.

If it is the first hand and there are 8 people allin in front of you, how could that possibly be +EV? Only one needs to suck out and you are eliminated. I forget what the exact stats of AA holding up are, but that has to be at least 50/50. Why put your tourney life on the line, instead of waiting to get your money in later on? I can see going for it if it is a SAG or a regular tourney that you can just buy into again in 20 minutes, but for any decent tourney (Million, WarmUp, ect), it would surely be -EV to take that risk.

mr_president21 · Apr 27, 2008

I would call with a bunch of idiots playing if there is only one or two players in the hand, also if i got the person or persons covered in chips by a good bit. If there is 3 or more people in the hand all in or something i would fold it.

luckystriker22 · Apr 28, 2008

If Its not to expensive, you should definitly call.
aces are allways a hand that worth playing

RickH2005 · Apr 28, 2008

I have probably lost more hands w Pkt As than any other!! I HATE Pocket aces!! BUT, will always go all in-but NOT pre-flop ALL of the time! I HAVE won by slow playing them more often-There-by giving the others something to think about-BUT, if I'm on the button and folded to, I WILL go all in!

4Aces · Apr 28, 2008

odinscott said:
If it is the first hand and there are 8 people allin in front of you, how could that possibly be +EV? Only one needs to suck out and you are eliminated. I forget what the exact stats of AA holding up are, but that has to be at least 50/50. Why put your tourney life on the line, instead of waiting to get your money in later on? I can see going for it if it is a SAG or a regular tourney that you can just buy into again in 20 minutes, but for any decent tourney (Million, WarmUp, ect), it would surely be -EV to take that risk.

AA wins against 8 random hands 30% of the time. So yes, you would get eliminated 70% of the time, but the other 30% of the time you win 8 stacks.
I can understand that people would not want to take the risk if they were in a big tourney that they don't play very often (like the Sunday million), but in just a regular tourney, I don't think you should ever fold aces preflop.

PokerVic · Apr 28, 2008

odinscott said:
If it is the first hand and there are 8 people allin in front of you, how could that possibly be +EV? Only one needs to suck out and you are eliminated. I forget what the exact stats of AA holding up are, but that has to be at least 50/50. Why put your tourney life on the line, instead of waiting to get your money in later on? I can see going for it if it is a SAG or a regular tourney that you can just buy into again in 20 minutes, but for any decent tourney (Million, WarmUp, ect), it would surely be -EV to take that risk.

You have to take chances to win any tourney. You would have to get an exceptional run of cards to never be at risk, so you will have to go all-in at some point. When to go in is a matter of preference, but you'll surely want a position that is +EV.

In this situation (8 all-ins before you) you are risking your full stack (let's assume 1500) to win 13,500. Even if your hand is only 35% to hold up, that's still an expected value of 4725. So, it's definitely a +EV move to call. Of course, not everyone would make that call, preferring not to risk their tournament this early, but I would do it in a second.

halfbear · Apr 28, 2008

ouch

Bullits or nails(for a coffin) take your pick. I have lost with AA. It happens

halfbear · Apr 28, 2008

If you fold aces never show

mls1024 · Apr 29, 2008

LMAO

Too damn funny, agreed never, EVER fold preflop!!!

PoochMasterFlex said:
you have no nuts and are a little school girl if u ever fold aces preflop.

feitr · Apr 29, 2008

On the bubble of a satellite where you might as well just sit out if you can make it through.

I'd still shove my stack with 4 all ins in front of me on the bubble of a MTT tho. Taking a chance to actually be able to give a top finish a shot is much better than winning back 2 times your buy in...course now that i write this i realise how stupid it is as it isn't like you would ever have lots of ppl going all in on the bubble of a tourn.

KingCurtis · Apr 29, 2008

wtf, you never fold AA think about it.........best hand preflop...BEST HAND..............who wouldnt call with the best hand PREFLOP!!!

quin666 · Apr 29, 2008

Look at you history and then make your own mind up

In my very humble opinion, I think that going all in with anything, be it AA or KK, pre-flop in the first 10-20 hands of a mtt is pretty much gambling.

If I look back (and this is just me) at all the times I have had those holy grail pre-flop pockets, calling to go all in before everyone has settled down, I have probably only won 30% of those hands.

For every person that is all in before you, you have that much less of a chance to win. WHY???

Because pretty much any flop to 4 or 5 sets of any pocket cards will kick your but because there are so many more cards on the table in play.

Poker is a game of skill where you play hands based on skill, experience, odds and mathematical equasions, and if you push with AA or KK pre-flop to so many all-inners, you wittle your odds away.

Ok, with all that ranting out of the way, ask me if I have ever folded AA or KK pre-flop, ever...

Are you nuts, do you know how hard that is?

When to fold aces preflop?

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