$5 NL HE MTT: BBK4s

Preflop: In my opinion, a mini raise, K4S can be given

Flop: the mini raise is interesting, if it had a K or 8, it would have given a larger one. Would it have been worth it to get enough of 3? I didn't want to build a big pot because of a small kicker.

T: I thought this major surrender was a bluff, there can be no question of me turning 3.

A: I made a big mistake here. I think he showed strength through 3 streets, he's not going to bluff through 3 streets. I should have thrown here, or preflop, to avoid getting mixed up with weaker hands in this situation.

What do you guys think?

Preflop
K4s is a standard defend to a small raise from any position.

Flop
Top pair no kicker is a standard defend to a small c-bet.

Turn
Here the hand become interesting, because the flushdraw complete, and he size up significantly. At this point your hand is only a bluffcatcher. On the flop he can be C-betting a lot of in between hands like 99-QQ, 8X, AJ-AQ. But with this turn bet those hands are no longer in his range. He either has at least top pair better kicker for value, or he is purely bluffing for instance with the naked ace of spades.

You dont have a spade in your hand, so you dont have any backdoor equity, where you could end up sucking out on better made hands with no spade. And for that reason I think, I fold here. I know, it feels tight, because you have top pair. But you lose to top pair, so other than blocking some hands like AK, KQ and KJ, that might bet for value, there is not much difference between having K4 or 43.

River
Yeah I think, you need to fold here. At these stakes a river overbet is usually strongly skewed towards value. You need to be good like 40% of the time, and I think, you are more likely good 10% of the time if even that often. This is essentially a microstakes game, even though most poker sites still classify it is "low stakes", and people in these games just dont bluff that much with a line like this. At least not without some specific read on this player.

Thank you, and in retrospect that I played too much, I couldn't let go of the top couple, it's hard to see clearly and think through situations while playing, sometimes I just push and push and I don't think about situations enough, thank you for your analysis!

Preflop: agree with the flat.

Flop: weak sizing, but he could be trapping. I'm not sure if a raise here is better than a call, but I'm pretty sure I would have just called, too.

Turn: especially given that the Flop bet was so small, this is his first real bet, and you have top pair. I don't think you can fold. Raising now also doesn't achieve much because I don't think he barrels a weaker hand again after the flush came in. So I think calling is correct.

River: First I should say, I didn't find this obvious, took me a bit of thinking to decide, and it's always easier if you're not playing. So I wouldn't worry too much if you didn't get this spot right.

I think it should be a fold because he's never value-betting a weaker hand than K4, so the only thing you beat is a bluff. But he's not very likely to bluff this board because the flush came in with two broadway spades. (This matters because the cards on the board can't be in anyone's hand, so if there are broadway cards in the middle, then the person with the stronger preflop range, which is your opponent, has fewer flushes in their range.) You're the one more likely to have a flush here, and he doesn't want to bluff into that. And there's just not really many draws he could have bet on the Flop that didn't make it by the River. It's mainly the flush draws, which got there.

Reveal: This is a very silly hand for him to have, but nonetheless, I think the points above still apply.

Reading above post: Maybe fundiver is right that you can fold on the Turn; maybe the weak Flop sizing doesn't matter. It's not a fold I'd have found, though.

kdmeteor said:

Reading above post: Maybe fundiver is right that you can fold on the Turn; maybe the weak Flop sizing doesn't matter. It's not a fold I'd have found, though.

Click to expand...

I would guess, a solver calls to, so folding is a somewhat exploitative line. With that said, and now that we know his hand, it is worth reflecting a little bit about, what his small flop sizing mean. And it seems to me, its kind of a reverse block. Meaning he dont want to check back, because then he might face a big bet on the turn. But he also dont want to bet big, because his goal is to make a hand and only then put chips into the pot.

But if thats his strategy, then his much larger turn sizing is a major red flag, because it mean, he improved, and now he is going for value. If OP is into note taking, he might make a note like "small=small?" And of course if he has not already tagged this player, then such a bad suited hand from UTG could also earn him the fish tag. Definitely a +40% VPIP player, if this hand is in his range from any position.

Geo90 said:

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Preflop: In my opinion, a mini raise, K4S can be given

Flop: the mini raise is interesting, if it had a K or 8, it would have given a larger one. Would it have been worth it to get enough of 3? I didn't want to build a big pot because of a small kicker.

T: I thought this major surrender was a bluff, there can be no question of me turning 3.

A: I made a big mistake here. I think he showed strength through 3 streets, he's not going to bluff through 3 streets. I should have thrown here, or preflop, to avoid getting mixed up with weaker hands in this situation.

What do you guys think?

Click to expand...

How to do a deep dive range analysis--
1 What is a standard V Utg range-take the time to build the range or use free gto wizard to look at gto ranges as a starting point.
2 How does our hand do vs that range? preflop we know the V has all the better KX hands in their range. How do we want to play a K4 vs that range on flop? Should we even call 2 streets? forget about the bet sizing do we want to call 2 bets from a V?

Build the V's flop small bet range or you can run 1 hand per day post flop on free gto wiz and look at ranges

Good luck

eetenor said:

Hogyan végezzünk mélymerüléses tartományelemzést?
1 Mi az a standard V Utg tartomány? Szánjon időt a tartomány felépítésére, vagy használja az ingyenes GTO varázslót a GTO tartományok kiindulópontként való megtekintéséhez.
2 Hogyan teljesít a kezünk ehhez a skálához képest? Preflop tudjuk, hogy a V-nek minden jobb KX keze van a skálájában. Hogyan akarunk K4-gyel játszani ebben a skálában flopnál? Egyáltalán meg kell-e tartanunk 2 tétet? Felejtsük el a tét méretét, meg akarjuk adni 2 tétet egy V-ről?

Építsd fel a V flop kis tét skáláját, vagy játszhatsz naponta 1 leosztást flop után az ingyenes gto wiz-en, és nézd meg a skálákat.

Sok szerencsét:bizonytalan:

Click to expand...

I use it, sometimes I even play one of my free hands, but at this level, how much is the GTO strategy worth following? Most of your opponents will not play like this.

I try to record the preflop ranks as best as possible to see in which position, in which hand how many BBs it is worth starting with, I also try to incorporate SB BB fights into my game, but it is not easy to keep these in mind

In this situation, according to the GTO, I should have dropped R, overplayed my card.

Thank you for your answer, good luck at the table!

Geo90 said:

I use it, sometimes I even play one of my free hands, but at this level, how much is the GTO strategy worth following? Most of your opponents will not play like this.

I try to record the preflop ranks as best as possible to see in which position, in which hand how many BBs it is worth starting with, I also try to incorporate SB BB fights into my game, but it is not easy to keep these in mind

In this situation, according to the GTO, I should have dropped R, overplayed my card.

Thank you for your answer, good luck at the table!

Click to expand...

We do not just follow GTO strategy as it applies to GTO players--we use it as a base line to interact with our players---We then make adjustments, as in this spot where the V opened a wide range UTG we would not study how to respond to UTG range we would need to use BTN range for our study. If we do that we see that K4 hand changes to check raise flop more often than call--that 1 new approach improves our game. K4 still can call when it does and the V bets big they do so with Kx and flushes sets- over pairs with a spade etc ---While the solver has you still call it is only because the V solver has bluffs that our V do not have. If we nodelock for fewer bluffs we will fold K4 on the turn---you cannot use the AI version for free, so we have to do this work ourselves We know our V under bluff and have a lot of flush cards on this turn so we can fold

eetenor said:

We do not just follow GTO strategy as it applies to GTO players--we use it as a base line to interact with our players---We then make adjustments, as in this spot where the V opened a wide range UTG we would not study how to respond to UTG range we would need to use BTN range for our study. If we do that we see that K4 hand changes to check raise flop more often than call--that 1 new approach improves our game. K4 still can call when it does and the V bets big they do so with Kx and flushes sets- over pairs with a spade etc ---While the solver has you still call it is only because the V solver has bluffs that our V do not have. If we nodelock for fewer bluffs we will fold K4 on the turn---you cannot use the AI version for free, so we have to do this work ourselves We know our V under bluff and have a lot of flush cards on this turn so we can fold

Click to expand...

I see thanks for watching this at the tables, I don't use hud yet but with 888 the built in hud I can see who is playing with what VPIP values and then I can compare it to the position hand scale that is closest,

The more I try to learn the more complicated this game gets,
Today I was reading about range balance, "It refers to having the right ratio of good hands and bad hands in similar situations, so that your opponent cannot easily put you on a range." it's an interesting approach, but in micro bets I don't think you have to deal with that, you don't get enough notes from your opponents I think, but like the other hands as you said sometimes you have to call with second pair sometimes you bluff your opponent it's hard to find that balance on the right boards