KK vs flush draw

ZZFLOP · Aug 26, 2008

FR

I have about 18 000 in chips , I'm in mp and I wake up with KK.
I have KK and raise 4 BB and get 2 callers,
Flop: 2d 7c 10d
I bet the pot so if one of my opponents is on a draw he gets no odds to call.
One opponent folds the other goes all in, his stack is about 10 000.
The overall chipleader at another table has about 50 000 and we're just past the middle stages of the tournament.
If I call I'll have a good shot at making the FT however if my Kings don't hold I will have to struggle to make it to the FT.
Do I call or fold ?

t1riel · Aug 26, 2008

So, you worried about a hand that the opponent doesn't have and probably won't get. Seeing as it's in the middle stages of the tournament, I probably would have shoved after the flop. It's a great possibility you have the best hand. You don't play to make it to the final table. You play to win. For me, it's a call every time.

P.S. Blinds would help if you include it.

blankoblanco · Aug 26, 2008

yep, when you post a HH from memory, remember to include the size of the blinds cause it's very important. but here, especially assuming FR = freeroll, i'm calling regardless. there are few combinations of hands that beat you and a lot of the ones that do would slowplay (even if i don't necessarily agree with it, that's just what people like to do)

definitely call in a spot where you have a sizeable edge, and go for the FT

Mr Iggs · Aug 26, 2008

No way I fold here...you most likely have the best hand here. You wont make the ft playing scared.

kevbowen · Aug 26, 2008

typical

you've got to think your odds were just above the coinflip. Depending on the stack I'd call pre-flop with 7's, 10's or a good suited ace. In fact I've gone all in before with four to the flush (ace high), in that situation and beat KK by catching the ace, and onetime had to split the pot with a donk who had ace rags offsuit.

bobphilallo · Aug 26, 2008

I think you should call because if he does a flush draw and the only possible outs he has are the diamonds he only has 9 possible diamonds and that is without substracting the diamonds the other people at the table folded. So youre odds are pretty good. Plus people who go all-in with 10000 chips on a flush draw are rare. To put your tournament life on a draw isnt the smartest thing to do. For me it wouldve been a call. Of course he couldve had a set because often in FT when you have a big pocket another player has a low pocket so he may have had a set.

10crow10 · Aug 28, 2008

i would call becuase even if he has the draw you are worried about he is still a big dog

antizzle23 · Aug 29, 2008

i would call because u gotta gamble sometime best case scenario is he overplayed top pair in which u have him dominated
if not and he does have the flush draw u still are a significant favorite so i dont see how u can fold no matter the blinds

sliver101 · Aug 29, 2008

im thinking hes got tp/tp a-10 an is shovin to get u out or a fl draw eithers a call could have hit a set but unless uve seen him bet similarly with a set theres no way to know tht in which case u jus add another bad beat story as we all do

philber420 · Aug 29, 2008

I would make the call for sure, this guy has one of three hands or he has the draw you think he has. First he could have a set of 7's or 10's. Odds of that are pretty unlikely, He could have A-10 depending on how he had been playing the whole time is what should tip you off to this or not. t is very easy to notice when players overplay top pair. He could have the 8d 9d in this case , going all in trying to move you off of an AA or KK type of hand. It is hard to ask others what to do since they have not seen thsi guy play at all. This is why you pay attention at the table to help you out later on when you are in this type of situation.

The Shrog · Aug 29, 2008

You have to be pleased with this flop. Get the money in.

TheHoag57 · Aug 30, 2008

I would almost always call with the K's. The only time I wouldn't is if the player who pushed had already demonstrated that he was reckless enough to play a starting hand that could have been hit on that flop. Even if he had two pair, you'd still have outs. On balance, I call.

Makwa · Aug 30, 2008

Good flop for u, call all in, u cant fear a monster under the bed all the time.
U are way ahead on most of his possible holdings/draws.

tpb221 · Aug 30, 2008

Shove, Your ahead of his calling range. Plus with this being a freeroll I think its a no-brainer.

BostonRobber · Aug 30, 2008

Hmmm is this Doyle Brunson with 10 2 or some very different cowboy? Only one way to find out. I'd call.

herlis · Aug 31, 2008

yes, no way will i fold my hand , i would have gone all in before the flop. if you are so worried about losing then how can you win, you have a very good hand KK and still your to afraid what more if your in the final table? sitout?.....LOL

beechleaf · Sep 1, 2008

definatly call I would fr anyways and you are in a coin flip for sure I would put him on a weak ace or smaller pp

Jabbie1 · Sep 1, 2008

i would not overplay a overpair in middle stages of any tornamant. depending on the blinds/potsize i would fold and get my money in with a made hand. Everyone is saying call, this is just clear that too many people overplay overpairs..

'you are in a coin flip' - not good odds for 2/3 hours work for your whole stack!

hegezsolt · Sep 1, 2008

When he has a flushdraw your odds are good.
But he could have a set.
I would dont fold this hand. I would call.

teksmith · Sep 1, 2008

ZZFLOP said:
FR

I have about 18 000 in chips , I'm in mp and I wake up with KK.
I have KK and raise 4 BB and get 2 callers,
Flop: 2d 7c 10d
I bet the pot so if one of my opponents is on a draw he gets no odds to call.
One opponent folds the other goes all in, his stack is about 10 000.
The overall chipleader at another table has about 50 000 and we're just past the middle stages of the tournament.
If I call I'll have a good shot at making the FT however if my Kings don't hold I will have to struggle to make it to the FT.
Do I call or fold ?

I'm no expert but when you say you bet the pot to take away the odds for a draw, I have to question the math. If the pot is X and you bet X then they are getting 2/1. A 4 to a flush draw is about 36% or a little better than 2/1 if they plan on going all the way to showdown. You didn't say what the pot size was but if it were big enough then it might make sense to put the pressure on you here. Again just my opinion and I love to hear how I'm wrong.

as for your decision, I'd have to call as KK would usually be favored against this flop unless they have a set already. So some of the decision has to hinge on your impressions of how they play.

chispa73 · Sep 1, 2008

I would definitely call. Would be nice to know if one of your Kings was a diamond but it shouldn't really matter. Yeah a loss would cripple you but you are not getting all of your money in there.

monster · Sep 1, 2008

i would say call ,but the player could have A/A TRIPS OR 2-pair so i wouldnt be suprised if i was behind @that point,and it would be funny if he went allin with top pair on the board and an ACE kicker............but @ times its worse that some1 would go allin on a draw and hit the draw on the river...........

bardy · Sep 2, 2008

you will have to call more than 1 all-in to get to the final table . k-k would be an easy call to me

lewis010 · Sep 2, 2008

you have to call there man... the only chance you werent leading the hand is if your opponent have aa and this is not very probably. so i think its an easy call

ZZFLOP · Sep 3, 2008

Thanks for the replies I did make the call but got sucked out (again) that's why I doubted my play but I guess I made the right decision.

KK vs flush draw

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