20-25 BB shoving/calling ranges

gm112112 · Mar 6, 2019

Hi,
I’m fairly new to the MTT world and came across two hands/ flips that I ended up on the wrong side of (result). What I would like to understand from people with more MTT experience is were these the correct decisions irrespective of result or not.

Situation 1 - 4 handed on FT
Hero BB - 24 BB (AJ hearts)
Villain - SB - 74 BB
Villain - UTG - 64 BB
Villain - button - 34 BB
utg fold, button limps, Sb flats. Hadn’t seen Button limp even once with premiums like AA, KK, QQ, AK etc once. Aggressive with those hands as he had been at my table through. With dead money I raise to 4.5 BB and he shoves. I called it off and scratched.
Villain had 10 10

Situation 2 - 8 handed
CO- villain 60 BB
Button hero - 21 BB ( A 9 diamonds)
Sb villain - 25 BB
BB villain 22 BB
CO limps. Hero raise 3x, Sb folds, BB shoves, CO folds, Hero calls.
Villain shows K 10 hearts and wins
ITM 54 players left ( hero was 40th at the time)

I thought these were interesting spots. Was I correct ?

kddy · Mar 6, 2019

It a hard decisions, better not show

xy23 · Mar 6, 2019

gm112112 said:
Hi,
I’m fairly new to the MTT world and came across two hands/ flips that I ended up on the wrong side of (result). What I would like to understand from people with more MTT experience is were these the correct decisions irrespective of result or not.

Situation 1 - 4 handed on FT
Hero BB - 24 BB (AJ hearts)
Villain - SB - 74 BB
Villain - UTG - 64 BB
Villain - button - 34 BB
utg fold, button limps, Sb flats. Hadn’t seen Button limp even once with premiums like AA, KK, QQ, AK etc once. Aggressive with those hands as he had been at my table through. With dead money I raise to 4.5 BB and he shoves. I called it off and scratched.
Villain had 10 10

Situation 2 - 8 handed
CO- villain 60 BB
Button hero - 21 BB ( A 9 diamonds)
Sb villain - 25 BB
BB villain 22 BB
CO limps. Hero raise 3x, Sb folds, BB shoves, CO folds, Hero calls.
Villain shows K 10 hearts and wins
ITM 54 players left ( hero was 40th at the time)

I thought these were interesting spots. Was I correct ?

Yes you played it standard it seems.
First example was final table so AJs is definitely shove worthy / call worthy of a shove.
Second example was a good read by you i assume. Nonetheless, it was button vs bb but i think A9s or maybe ATs is the bottom of my calling range.

kkonicke · Mar 6, 2019

I probably would have played both spots similarly. As a poster above noted, I assume you had some sort of read on the BB? Maybe he's been 3 betting to wide...something like that. Otherwise it's probably a fold.

Viper ChipIt · Mar 6, 2019

Situation 1 his limp shove range is really strong, looks like you ran into the bottom of his range and ended up flipping. Most of the time you will be behind, just raise and fold your AJ here.

Viper ChipIt · Mar 6, 2019

Situation 2 is close but i like the call if you have been stealing wide and the villian has been defending. Played fine

Eric Salvador · Mar 6, 2019

The hands they showed up with were best case. The buttons 3bet shoving range has you crushed. It looks like 88+ AJo+ ATs+ KQs makes up most of the range. You could throw in some other suited Aces but you’re calling with what would be close to the bottom of his range

NickNation · Mar 6, 2019

the second one was probably a fold.. you should download snap shove to get a better feel for shoving ranges.. if you buy the full version they have calling ranges, too.

Steve Deeble · Mar 6, 2019

In situation 1 I would have played similarly AJ suited being a strong hand late in a tournament.

In situation 2 I don’t think I would’ve shoved with A9 suited too many possibilities of better hands.

Darth_Moola · Mar 6, 2019

The first situation is an auto fold in my opinion. When someone limps the button and then shoves I just don't see AJs as a hand where I am going to be ahead very often. When they have you covered, it is a trap.

The second situation is totally dependent on how they've been playing. I'm going to assume that any K8s+ is in this shover's range. With that being the case, this is typically a profitable call. A9s beats K8s+ ~60% of the time. From there, you just need to ask if you are willing to put your entire tournament on that margin.

gm112112 · Mar 7, 2019

Thanks everyone!
I guess raise/ folding to the shove could have been an option albeit falling under 20bbs (chip and a chair)!
Situation 2 as I failed to mention I did have a read on the BB who was ever so active.
Also will download the aforementioned software!
Cheers!

Bluffzone68 · Mar 7, 2019

Hey
I agree with most about the style of play for both hands.

#1 AJ good
#2 A9 no good
But again in poker as in life, when its time to go nothing will help you to stay back...

Luvepoker · Mar 7, 2019

gm112112 said:
Hi,
I’m fairly new to the MTT world and came across two hands/ flips that I ended up on the wrong side of (result). What I would like to understand from people with more MTT experience is were these the correct decisions irrespective of result or not.

Situation 1 - 4 handed on FT
Hero BB - 24 BB (AJ hearts)
Villain - SB - 74 BB
Villain - UTG - 64 BB
Villain - button - 34 BB
utg fold, button limps, Sb flats. Hadn’t seen Button limp even once with premiums like AA, KK, QQ, AK etc once. Aggressive with those hands as he had been at my table through. With dead money I raise to 4.5 BB and he shoves. I called it off and scratched.
Villain had 10 10

Situation 2 - 8 handed
CO- villain 60 BB
Button hero - 21 BB ( A 9 diamonds)
Sb villain - 25 BB
BB villain 22 BB
CO limps. Hero raise 3x, Sb folds, BB shoves, CO folds, Hero calls.
Villain shows K 10 hearts and wins
ITM 54 players left ( hero was 40th at the time)

I thought these were interesting spots. Was I correct ?

Hand 1 was an tough one. Base on what you said about he was never limping and now he limped shoved I would be concerned he is trapping with the monster hand here. You are deep enough that you could fold it here but its on the edge on call fold for me here. I would go with my read of the player here. Don't blame you for calling here though.

2nd hand I would fold unless I had a solid read on the player that he is doing this wildly. There are hand we beat here and many flips but most likely any ace he could have we are going to be dominated.

azforlife · Feb 11, 2020

Darth_Moola said:
The first situation is an auto fold in my opinion. When someone limps the button and then shoves I just don't see AJs as a hand where I am going to be ahead very often. When they have you covered, it is a trap.

The second situation is totally dependent on how they've been playing. I'm going to assume that any K8s+ is in this shover's range. With that being the case, this is typically a profitable call. A9s beats K8s+ ~60% of the time. From there, you just need to ask if you are willing to put your entire tournament on that margin.

agree the most with this reply.
I think 1st is a fold as well. Ace high cards are overvalued when caling over 20 bigs imo

ChuckNola · Feb 12, 2020

I think I would have folded that 2nd hand.
The 1st hand I handle differently based on my read. I probably would have shoved as well. AJ suited is too good of a hand to knuckle as the Big Blind especially with all that dead money in the pot. Not to mention you only have 24 BB’s raising 5 BB’s is risky because if you get called and you whiff the flop you are out of position and you are barreling hoping to fold out the small pocket pairs.

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20-25 BB shoving/calling ranges

gm112112

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kddy

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xy23

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kkonicke

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Viper ChipIt

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Viper ChipIt

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Eric Salvador

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NickNation

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Steve Deeble

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Darth_Moola

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gm112112

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Bluffzone68

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Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone

azforlife

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ChuckNola

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