Calling / Pushing All-In with a Flush Draw?

skipizzle · Dec 7, 2013

I'm curious to hear what you guys think about calling or pushing all-in with a flush draw? Consider different environments, I'd love to hear your input.

How often do you call a strong bet with a flush draw? (Assuming you're beat unless hit.)

ravpl · Dec 7, 2013

It depends on our pot/odds.If you will not use it your winning will depend on luck instead skill.

skipizzle · Dec 7, 2013

Just found this article that has some really interesting insight regarding a flush draw situation.

http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/odds4

etherghost · Dec 7, 2013

What percentage of my stack is at risk, would be my main concern.

Salvete777 · Dec 7, 2013

Well, you should look to situation.
1. If you had really small stack (5bb's or less) - call
2. If you had to call less than 30% of your stack - call
3. If you had average stack (10bb's or more) - fold
Thats the things I do usualy.

I can say one - You woun't lean poker from reading. The main is experiece.

aa88wildbill · Dec 8, 2013

If "strong bet" means, you don't have pot odds generally speaking you fold. An exception might be, if your hitting good that day, you might wanna give it a try.

kidkvno1 · Dec 8, 2013

You really don't want to be risking all of you stack on a flush draw.
I've lost more on flush draws, vs winning on flush draws.

See this one [old link~tb]

etherghost said:
What percentage of my stack is at risk, would be my main concern.

It would be all-in!
Why are you posting a question to a question????

micalupagoo · Dec 8, 2013

calling for the right price is okay, pushing every flush draw will probably lose you in the long run...depends on villians and such

Id say chasing is a bad habit myself

Quasimodo · Dec 8, 2013

I'm believing odds about 31% pre-turn. So I ask you, do you feel 69% lucky? And even more than that, hitting your flush draw is not always a win.

RNG · Dec 8, 2013

Really depends on the situation and pot odds is the main reason you should do it. But you shove a lot more of the times than you call. By shoving, you can win with your opponent folding or hitting.

IPlay · Dec 8, 2013

Final Table in a free roll where I got it all in on a flush draw

http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/5535366

That was a good situation to get it all in with a flush draw because I would still have a dominating chip lead if I lost, and if I won, then the tournament was over and I knocked out the final 2 opponents in one hand.

Weisssound · Dec 9, 2013

Very often when someone is overbetting a suited flop it's because they don't want to give the opponent favorable odds to see a flush hit. It's a defensive overbet if that makes sense. And calling it is technically a mistake.

kmichaels · Dec 9, 2013

It depends of what you feel and how good you are playing draws. If you´re having a day that you catch every draw then push all in could be a very profit move, but if you´re having a bad day where you never hit anything i think you should fold. That´s what i do in those situations.

Unfinished Business · Dec 9, 2013

I've been reading a lot of poker books over the last month or so and from everything i've read, the correct play is to call or even raise to an all-in on a flush draw with the top drawer/nuts draw.

Quasimodo · Dec 12, 2013

Everybody shoves on draws SOMETIMES. Some days I'm more in the mood to gamble than other days. I know I'm more likely to play stupid the hungrier I am. Perhaps I should stock ready-made foods and let my health suffer more than my game, but still there's that gamble mood I'll have to deal with. Lolz.

ravpl · Dec 13, 2013

Unfinished Business said:
I've been reading a lot of poker books over the last month or so and from everything i've read, the correct play is to call or even raise to an all-in on a flush draw with the top drawer/nuts draw.

What is the book? I'd like to read it

alex5207 · Dec 13, 2013

Well, assuming the flush will give you the nuts (no chance for your opponent to get full houses etc.) a shove would be the right move IF your opponent will fold to a shove around 30% of the time or more. If he folds >30% of the time it would be +ev

Calculating this is goes on like this --> His equity is at this time approxmately 70%. So if you multiply his equity with his fold equity (30%) 0,3*0,7 = 21%. You can add the 21% to your own equity at around 30-31% which will give you slightly better than 50% equity.

Since it's only slightly +ev i wouldn't suggest doing this in tourneys if you can avoid it. But being shortstacked in a tourney is never fun so if you find yourself in a spot where you're practically comitted to the pot, a shove would be an absolute fine decision

lost2qandisa · Dec 13, 2013

A flush draw has a 20% chance of hitting. However, are you holding middle cards or top cards? Someone else may be on the same draw with higher cards. In turbo tournaments, I will push with a flush draw because the blinds go up so fast, you must take some risk. Cash game, almost always a fold. How much fold equity might play into the decision as well. If I think I can get the last two players to fold because they are tight, I will push. It is risky and if the pot odds are not in your favor, you will lose money over time in cash games. Not so sure how it would work out in tournaments over time. If you double up in a tourney, it might be worth the risk.

etherghost · Dec 13, 2013

kidkvno1 said:
You really don't want to be risking all of you stack on a flush draw.
I've lost more on flush draws, vs winning on flush draws.

See this one [old link~tb]

It would be all-in!
Why are you posting a question to a question????

kidvno1, it's not a question. It's a "yoda" style of writing.

To rephrase it in plain english:

I would be concerned with the size of my stack before I made further decision.

HooDooKoo · Dec 13, 2013

lost2qandisa said:
A flush draw has a 20% chance of hitting. However, are you holding middle cards or top cards? Someone else may be on the same draw with higher cards. In turbo tournaments, I will push with a flush draw because the blinds go up so fast, you must take some risk. Cash game, almost always a fold. How much fold equity might play into the decision as well. If I think I can get the last two players to fold because they are tight, I will push. It is risky and if the pot odds are not in your favor, you will lose money over time in cash games. Not so sure how it would work out in tournaments over time. If you double up in a tourney, it might be worth the risk.

Not even close. The probability of making your flush given that you flop a 4-flush is 35%.

-HooDooKoo

LeeCallaghan · Dec 13, 2013

how much the pot? or tournament? You are lucky tonight? or not?

jj20002 · Dec 13, 2013

depends on the situation

several factors are involved in the decision, for instance the stage you are playing, the number of villains, the kind of villains you are facing, your stack, the stack of the villain, the pot, the high card you hold (if you have 7-8 you probably lose the flush)

chipstacker · Dec 13, 2013

Pot odds and calculations can get you in trouble some times.

SANDYHOOKER KY · Dec 13, 2013

How do you raise an all in, unfinished business? Never was able to pull that one off. Or are you suggesting raising anyone else that might still be in? I believe that would be a rank amateur move. Even if you have a 100 to 1 chip lead, that's how the rookies bleed to death. Busted more players trying that than i lost to.

Vhyre · Dec 14, 2013

If its a situation where its my one decent opportunity go get my chips in as the short stack, then yes I will call with two more cards to come. Otherwise I don't think the push is worth it. But as with all things poker, situations vary.

Calling / Pushing All-In with a Flush Draw?

skipizzle

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