How to expect a positive roi of 50 percent a month

foldzall · Apr 22, 2015

how to expect a positive roi of 50 percent a month

Can anyone explain to me the formula used in figuring out this math problem? I played 91 tournaments, i won 2 first place, and cashed 15 with a positive roi! If i play 100 tournaments a month, what percentage of my bank roll should be used per tournament, in order to expect a positive roi of 50 percent or more?

teepack · Apr 22, 2015

I don't think the size of your bankroll determines the ROI. And I don't think even the best players in the world have an ROI of 50%.

BearPlay · Apr 22, 2015

Hey Shane!

I'm not the best person to answer those questions for you, but I see that teepack has already stopped by with some help.

I'll see if I can get a few more people to offer their thoughts.

Good to see you over here!

Bear

S3mper · Apr 22, 2015

It doesn't matter how much of your BR % you use in regards of getting a set ROI.

You set a BR limit per tournaments to handle the downswings, which you will have. Tournaments have a lot of variance. I mean a lot!

50% ROI is unsustainable I'll let Dorkus Malorkus explain it best

"Just a word of warning, a 50% ROI is unsustainable - don't expect to be able to maintain this figure no matter how good a player you are. Around a 30% ROI at the micros and 20% at mid-stakes (give or take 5%) are generally considered to be 'plateaus' for long-term ROI. It seems like you're a good player, but you're also running good, so don't let it get to your head too much." - Dorkus

Here is a thread on ROI

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/return-investment-roi-71122/

Edit: Too answer your original question of "How to maintain an ROI of 50%" You really can't is the answer. No matter how you set your BR management but as I said up above Bank Roll management is more for handling the variance swings then it is getting a set Return on Investment.

As for BR management on tournaments you should probably have 100 times the Buy-in. Maybe even up to 200x the buy in in the tougher fields.

S3mper · Apr 22, 2015

Of course I'm an idiot and that quote I quoted was for STT and not MTT's lol.

The thread should still be useful.

Dwilius · Apr 22, 2015

yea, that was in response to an stt question as the games were years ago, the answer would be lower today.

50% roi is feasible long term at low level mtts with decent structure, but not as a monthly result.

relevant article: http://www.nsdpoker.com/2011/01/mtt-pros/ ~ http://www.nsdpoker.com/2011/02/mtt_pros_2/

foldzall · Apr 22, 2015

So basically, in order to see growth, what should i do, because even with these numbers im not seeing growth. Its frustrating!

teepack · Apr 23, 2015

Set a goal for yourself, not in terms of ROI, but in terms of where you want your bankroll to be at the end of the year. You have to set a long-term goal because you are going to have downswings, and if you can't handle the downswings, you'll never reach your larger goals.

Stay patient, get better, learn from your mistakes.

RamdeeBen · Apr 23, 2015

You can't estimate your ROI% to be 50% over a 91 tournament example. You need to play many more games to get even close to it.

You can't really focus on a monthly ROI% neither. Also, ROI% doesn't effect your BR management, your dollar amount does. Of course though, the higher your ROI%, the less buy-ins you technically need because your downswings should be less but we still don't know what games you're referring to in which you think you have a 50% ROI in.

For example;

If you want to play $5 games 100 games per month and these fields was over 180 man, you should really aim for 100 buy-ins so you're going to need $500. If you can maintain the 50% ROI, then your profit will be $250 on the month.

50% is certainly possible and much higher at the lower stake MTT's. I'd just aim for x amount of tournaments per month as your goal and don't focus on your ROI%. You could very well breakeven or lose over 2000 games for example.

TeUnit · Apr 23, 2015

think a long term roi of 50% is not very realistic, and a sample size under 100 mtts will not be that accurate

if you want to minimize the risk of ruin....maybe just have 200 buyins and see how it goes from there

Marcwantstowin · Apr 23, 2015

Hi Fodzall, (Shane). Nice to see you on the forum.

As has been said 50% ROI is very ambitious and I would think that is not realistic. Got to say mine is much less than that and I only play Mtt's and the occasional Stt.

I know that it is recommended that you should never have more than 5% of your bankroll on the table when playing cash games. I am also led to believe that you should buy-in for 1% of your bankroll when playing tournaments. You will find a lot of threads on here about the subject. Alot of people will also disagree with my figures, but that's poker.

Gl with your quest, but don't be discouraged if you don't achieve your 50% ROI and I would expect that you should measure your results and ROI with about 1000 tourneys played.................

teepack · Apr 23, 2015

foldzall said:
Can anyone explain to me the formula used in figuring out this math problem? I played 91 tournaments, i won 2 first place, and cashed 15 with a positive roi! If i play 100 tournaments a month, what percentage of my bank roll should be used per tournament, in order to expect a positive roi of 50 percent or more?

I don't think anybody ever answered your original question. You figure out your ROI by adding in all your buyins, then subtracting that number from all your winnings, then dividing the result by your buyins. For instance, let's say you played 91 tournament and all cost $5.50 (including the tourney fee). Your total investment is 91x5.50 for a total of $500.50. Let's saying your winnings added up to $675.50. So winnings - expenses = $175. Divide winnings by entry fees ($175/$500.50) = 35.0% ROI.

dealio96 · Apr 23, 2015

To make $100 with a 25% ROI, you need to play tournaments with a combined buy-in of $400

So... if you have a 50% roi... you need to play with a combined buy-in of $200 to make $100

Maybe this will help you understand roi a bit.

Also, bankroll management has nothing to do with roi expectations.

GL on the felts!!

skiptomyloot · Apr 23, 2015

i was studying the same situation on my side. I was on sharkscope and it showed i won 29% , loss 71% of the time. So i was thinking if I played 1.10 mtt which is 150gtd, 100gtd mtt's with 1st place finishes 40.00- 50.00 prizes.
I would assume if i can win 29% percent, i only gotta make the money 20% of the time and would hit a break even/loss, but if i hit 1st 5%-9% of the time, i would profit 3x starting bankroll. But like poker is said, it is easier said than done. But if this is the case, i want to focus on this approach and fix every leak in between to become more solid and be able to keep on winning.

teepack · Apr 23, 2015

Thinking you will finish first in MTTs 5-9% is a tad optimistic, I would think.

BobGrayling · Apr 24, 2015

To achieve a 50% ROI, try to play against really bad players. Preferably those with more $ than sense.

Randall McMurphy · Apr 25, 2015

Fwiw.

dealio96 · Apr 28, 2015

FWIW

... The good ole days...

dealio96 · Apr 28, 2015

dealio96 said:
FWIW ... The good ole days...

View attachment 81437

What?!?!

rifflemao · Apr 29, 2015

dealio96 said:
FWIW ... The good ole days...

View attachment 81437

Good ole days, indeed sir!

Propane Goat · Apr 29, 2015

If you're playing with freeroll money, until you deposit your own money into the site your ROI is infinite: something from nothing. If you bust completely, your ROI goes back to zero.

(being a smartass, just a little

)

(no wonder Stephen kicks my butt in league all the time too..........)

cjmoles · Apr 30, 2015

Propane Goat said:
If you're playing with freeroll money, until you deposit your own money into the site your ROI is infinite: something from nothing. If you bust completely, your ROI goes back to zero.

(being a smartass, just a little)

(no wonder Stephen kicks my butt in league all the time too..........)

Okay, I play for free and my ROI is so negative it isn't funny. Look up cjm2 on sharkscope and understand that I've never deposited a dime on that screen-name. But, according to sharkscope I'm leaking like a stuck pig! How does one interpret those figures?

alfiyka · Apr 30, 2015

people can have talent, genius. It is given from birth.It or eat it or not .Talented make too much money . They feel the cards. It's their job. All others will be in loss.

rhombus · Apr 30, 2015

cjmoles said:
Okay, I play for free and my ROI is so negative it isn't funny. Look up cjm2 on sharkscope and understand that I've never deposited a dime on that screen-name. But, according to sharkscope I'm leaking like a stuck pig! How does one interpret those figures?

EEK your graph loses £368 in one Game LOL, alot of games might not be tracked
I know certain games on certain sites arent tracked one of my profiles on sharkscope is down £50 but im I know im in profit

PS ROI = Total Profit/Total Cost

cjmoles · Apr 30, 2015

rhombus said:
EEK your graph loses £368 in one Game LOL, alot of games might not be tracked
I know certain games on certain sites arent tracked one of my profiles on sharkscope is down £50 but im I know im in profit

PS ROI = Total Profit/Total Cost

Isn't that strange? I never deposited so my ROI should be thru the roof! Instead....I show a totally negative ROI AND profit! LOL

How to expect a positive roi of 50 percent a month

foldzall

Rising Star

teepack

Legend

BearPlay

Cardschat Elite

S3mper

Poker Not Checkers

S3mper

Poker Not Checkers

Dwilius

CardsChat Regular

foldzall

Rising Star

teepack

Legend

RamdeeBen

Legend

TeUnit

Legend

Marcwantstowin

Member of the T.S.T

teepack

Legend

dealio96

The LAG Monkeys

skiptomyloot

Rock Star

teepack

Legend

BobGrayling

Rock Star

Randall McMurphy

Rock Star

dealio96

The LAG Monkeys

dealio96

The LAG Monkeys

rifflemao

Pugs Not Drugs

Propane Goat

Grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't

cjmoles

Rock Star

alfiyka

Legend

rhombus

Legend

cjmoles

Rock Star

About CardsChat

Our Community

Our Site