How we play with small stack. ADVICES

juste no many hands I mean wait for your best hand and go big raise or all in,not very hard to know....

onondaga said:

My vision!

First moment: we want to double up, so sit and wait for the strong hand.
"what kind of strong hand do u mean? later u write not to call allin with AK, is AK not strong?"
First mistake: even 66+ seems to us like a strong.
"66+ is 77 - AA, for sure when im short i push allin with 99+, maybe its looking fishy but ill do it"

Firs advice:

- Ace heigh pocket hand better then little pair "if mean AK, AQ, AJ and AT, dont think A8 is better than 99"
- Wait for TT+ hand "i dont think u have time to wait.... and u can never get TT+"
- DON'T call raise, better be raiser! Wait when all before you folded, and make all-in "u can be raiser even when someone raise (re-raise) "
- Don't play any call. Be ready make all-in with you hand " I LIKE THIS!"

Second advice:

- Don't play all-in even with AK against chip-leader of the table. Trust me, he win with his 72o "thats nice hand, and i complitely dissagree with this advice"

Third moment: before becoming small stack, try to avoid any trouble. Feel confident and don't male anything stupid moves. (I mean middle stage of tournament, when you was big stack and became small stack).
"AA preflop 3bet, flop with A u can also lose to higher combination, every move pre/after flop can be stupid after river."

Third advice:

- If you lose half part of chips try to keep your mind cool. You have still fairly stack to play tight. "yes, tight-agressive"

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Yeah, thanx for your comments! I have some thoughts about what you said.
Be re-raiser
Read below my point of view:

What is raise all-in first on the bubble mean? It mean, that when 5-7 players folded, and you had near KJs+, TT+, A9s+ pocket hand, remaining opponents often could not call your all-in bet and you get nice blinds.
Next you said, make all-in re-raise when someone at the table make raise! Comes out that you consciously want play against strong hand . . . (of course I don't mean you've got QQ+)

And as is usual, someone (for example guy who had in 3 times more cheap than you) will call your all-in bet with typical Q7s, KTo, 22+ and you will double up.

1. Someone open raising in the later stages of a tournament does not mean they have a strong hand.
2. Pocket Pairs 77+ are a lot stronger against your opponents calling ranges than A9/KJ.
3. Please try and work on your English if you want to discuss with people on the Internet. It can be very hard to understand what you're writing.

The Objetive with a small stack, see the flop as cheaply as possible to hit the flop.
The Power of the Strategy, Daniel Negreanu

I don't really agree on what u're saying.

Basically u're saying that ppl need to be a complete nit.

I'll point out 2 reasons why u shouldn't play like that:

1. Its very easy to counterplay it. I'll fold every single hand i'm holding unless I have AQs+, QQ+ when u make a raise. But, i'll raise u every single time I have the oportunity to steal the pot from u, since u said that u'd "Fold even AK".

2. If u're short stacked, u simply DO NOT HAVE TIME, to wait for a premium hand. The blinds will eat u up in 5-15 minutes, u have to make a move, fast.

When u're short stacked, u're looking for a blind steal or a coin flip, if possible, slightly favorable to u.
So, if u're sitting at CO-BTN-SB position and no one raised already, make your move, if u have at least a hand with some value if someone calls u. Something like J8+, Q6+, K5+, Ax. Most times u'll get the blinds, and a little air. And, if u're called, it will probably be a coin flip.

I agree with u on the point that its easier to make a raise urself than calling a raise. But, u have to be careful on who is leading the raise, since it can be a high stack just bullying the table, making his raise not so dangerous as a raise from a tight player. If such thing happens and I'm holding a good hand (like A10o+, QJ+) I'll easily re-raise him.
U said that u have to avoid the chip leader... Why? Honestly, if u're a small stack, probably everyone else on the table have u covered. It simply doesn't make any difference if u're facing the leaderchip or anyone else. I'd say I sometimes prefer facing the chip leader cause I know his raising and calling ranges are wider than a guy that could be really hurt by entering a coin flip against me.

So basically, if u're short stacked, u have to play more aggro than ever, and widen up ur range, not shortening it.

That, ofc, is my opinion

Lucothefish said:

You've made some good points, but



You lose a lot of credibility when you make statements like this.

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Couldn't agree more. Yes it's a 60/40 but if you won't take that gamble you shouldn't be playing poker.

rickroll said:

Couldn't agree more. Yes it's a 60/40 but if you won't take that gamble you shouldn't be playing poker.

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OMG . . .
What are you talking about? Seriously? If you want to be more qualified in our eyes please speak by the card!

All in with decent cards and hope for a double up or fold all around. There isnt much else you could do. Assess when you think you have at least 50% chance of double up and go for it.

pkrale said:

All in with decent cards and hope for a double up or fold all around. There isnt much else you could do. Assess when you think you have at least 50% chance of double up and go for it.

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What is decent cards for you exactly? Maybe you can announce special card range?

BogdanStark said:

What is decent cards for you exactly? Maybe you can announce special card range?

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I use a Push/Fold chart when I drop to 10BB or under...

TimovieMan said:

I use a Push/Fold chart when I drop to 10BB or under...

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Nice link, never see it. As for me chart is good and useful. Maybe I might to change some cards in the late positions (choose more carefully, more strong hands) but earlier positions are good enough.

TimovieMan said:

I use a Push/Fold chart when I drop to 10BB or under...

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of course It's useful. however, This chart is so famous that lots of people have a counter-strategy aganist this chart. In addition, Open shoving chance is rare... REALLY RARE. Most of big stack try to limp or raise to block the short stacks open shove.
It seems that 3Bet shove chart is desperately required..

omote23 said:

of course It's useful. however, This chart is so famous that lots of people have a counter-strategy aganist this chart.

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Once you're down to 10BB or less, there IS no other good strategy, and there can't be a counter-strategy. What are you going to do? Fold? In that case the shover wins the blinds. Call? Unless you have a monster, you're probably in for a coinflip. What's to counter?

In addition, Open shoving chance is rare... REALLY RARE. Most of big stack try to limp or raise to block the short stacks open shove.
It seems that 3Bet shove chart is desperately required..

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Are you a live player, perchance?

One more bad thing I hate in late stage is check-raise.
I prefer raise than check-raise, and if someone use it, I perceive it like he got AK on board AJ78
How do you think?

BogdanStark said:

One more bad thing I hate in late stage is check-raise.
I prefer raise than check-raise, and if someone use it, I perceive it like he got AK on board AJ78
How do you think?

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A check-raise is almost never TPTK. Most of the time it's either a monster hand (set+) or a semibluff. By check raising TPTK you only get better hands to continue and worse hands to fold, which is the exact opposite of what you want to do.

Onkorunkus said:

A check-raise is almost never TPTK. Most of the time it's either a monster hand (set+) or a semibluff. By check raising TPTK you only get better hands to continue and worse hands to fold, which is the exact opposite of what you want to do.

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Yes, I found myself doing the same. Three of a kind is better combination to do check-raise. However, a lot of players made check-raise (raise all-in) with pocket TT or JJ on the flop K 9 5

In this case I prefer and highly recommend to all of beginners make check-raise only with three of a kind on the flop, or flush draw, or already closing flush.

nice post, I think is realy like this,but sometime when lose 50 pr from my stack,i loose control...example, i have stack 100 BB,and i have KK ,raise pre flop and last player is all in ..I call and this boy have QQ and i lose becouse on board give Q...so this is second stack on table,but i have now 8 BB.. and loose control....

So I think it's better to do a check-raise with only three of a kind on the flop with a flush or a flush already closing.

When I have a small stack , waiting good card and go all-in

Muzyka1996 said:

When I have a small stack , waiting good card and go all-in

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Oh, very powerful advice))) Good LUCK, little stack

BogdanStark said:

Hey guys! This is good moment to talk about how we play with small stack in the tournament (doesn't meter freeroll or buy-in).

First moment: we want to double up, so sit and wait for the strong hand.
First mistake: even 66+ seems to us like a strong. With small pair we often call big raises from big stack guys and what we get? BAD BIT in the result. (big stacks can close straight with only 1 card, or get 2 better pairs then yours, and so on ...)
Firs advice:

- Ace heigh pocket hand better then little pair
- Wait for TT+ hand
- DON'T call raise, better be raiser! Wait when all before you folded, and make all-in
- Don't play any call. Be ready make all-in with you hand

Second moment: tilt after losing.
Second mistake: be sure, that you complied conditions of the first moment (read higher).
Second advice:

- Don't play all-in even with AK against chip-leader of the table. Trust me, he win with his 72o
- Don't puzzle if you lose with JJ+ hand (verify that all-players before you folded and you was raiser)

Third moment: before becoming small stack, try to avoid any trouble. Feel confident and don't male anything stupid moves. (I mean middle stage of tournament, when you was big stack and became small stack).
Third mistake: often you win strong can even huge stake in the middle stage. And with only one mistake you can lose half part of chips.
Third advice:

- If you lose half part of chips try to keep your mind cool. You have still fairly stack to play tight.
- If you lose half part of chips, try to change your game strategy for this moment. If you play more loose, play tight and vice verse.


So, I wait posts from you to know, how my article was important or not for you. Give me an answer about mistakes maybe I allowed.

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Great post,thanks for advice but i don't agree with that to fold AK if you are short like 10BB and under...what kind of hand you will wait if you fold AK,it doesn't matter against who you play that hand...it is good when you shrot to move all in.

BogdanStark said:

Hey guys! This is good moment to talk about how we play with small stack in the tournament (doesn't meter freeroll or buy-in).

First moment: we want to double up, so sit and wait for the strong hand.
...Don't wait too long or you lose fold equity when you do get a hand. What good is finally getting AA and you only have 4BBs left. With antes and blinds in the middle, it's very likely you're going to get by at least one player with a wide range of hands. And if you win, you're up ~11BBs and still short stack. Now what? Play tight again, bleed chips, and wait for another big hand?

Don't wait for double up situations to come. Take them when they do come along, but waiting isn't going to pad your stack or keep you from bleeding chips. Instead, look for situations where you can pick up chips. Steal blinds, re-steal blinds, punish limpers, and make squeeze plays. Yes, it's risky, but sometimes risk need to be taken when you're short stacked.

First mistake: even 66+ seems to us like a strong. With small pair we often call big raises from big stack guys and what we get? BAD BIT in the result. (big stacks can close straight with only 1 card, or get 2 better pairs then yours, and so on ...)
...If you're a short stack, shoving 66+ isn't a bad option and sometimes it's what you need to do depending on how many BBs you have and the structure of the tournament. I mean, if you're waiting for a hand to shove and your only options are shove/fold, then don't pass up opportunities to double up. Especially if you're still a long ways away from making any type of cash. Yes, you're going to run into higher pairs or your opponent will draw out on you sometimes, but it's always better to shove when you still have some fold equity than it is to shove a hand with no fold equity. Also, doubling up with a 10BB stack puts you in a much better situation than doubling up with a 5BB stack.

Firs advice:

- Ace heigh pocket hand better then little pair
...I think they're about even. If you have AX, you're raising against pairs and dominating weaker AX hands, but way behind bigger AX hands. With pairs, you're flipping against overs and over/under other pairs.
- Wait for TT+ hand
...With a short stack, you should widening your shoving range, not tightening them up. This range is way too tight to be playing with a short stack. Again, what good is shoving 1010+ with no fold equity after you've dwindled your 10-15BB stack down to 5BBs waiting for one of these hands?

- DON'T call raise, better be raiser! Wait when all before you folded, and make all-in
- Don't play any call. Be ready make all-in with you hand
...I agree with this. Be the aggressor when you can be, but don't be afraid to call of with a wider range of hands either. Though calling a shove is much different than being the person who shoves first and a calling would be villain dependent.

Second moment: tilt after losing.
Second mistake: be sure, that you complied conditions of the first moment (read higher).
Second advice:

- Don't play all-in even with AK against chip-leader of the table. Trust me, he win with his 72o
...This is such terrible advice. When you're short stack AK is a monster of hand. Hell, it's a monster of a hand when you aren't short stacked. If you have a strong hand, play it and don't be result oriented. Yes AK vs 72 is only a ~60% favorite, but if I'm short, I'm glad to take the flip against the chip leader.

- Don't puzzle if you lose with JJ+ hand (verify that all-players before you folded and you was raiser)
...All the players don't have to fold before before I shove with JJ+. Heck, I want everyone to limp in before me so I can pick up all that dead money and maybe get 1 caller. Watching everyone fold would be horrible to see.

Third moment: before becoming small stack, try to avoid any trouble. Feel confident and don't male anything stupid moves. (I mean middle stage of tournament, when you was big stack and became small stack).
...I think the middle stages of the tournament is where you need to take more risks in order to build a bigger stack. This is when you're sitting on a 25-40+BB stack. I think with 50+, you don't have to take as much unnecessary risks, but don't be afraid to play hands like KK, AA for stacks with 50BBs.

With a 25-40BB stack, you could play tight and safe, not risking your stack and maybe make it into the money for mostly min-cashes with the occasional deep run. However, I'd rather give up value (min/moderate cashes) at the mid-late stages and take smaller edges (get my stack in 50/50, 60/40 situations) in order to have a bigger stack at the later/final table stages. In other words, I'm not afraid to risk my stack and take less frequent min-cashes for the reward of having a bigger stack at the final tables.

This is how I play MTTs and how I approach them. It's different for each player and if cashing is your first priority, then play how you see fit. Personally, I think playing to min-cash is meaningless.

Third mistake: often you win strong can even huge stake in the middle stage. And with only one mistake you can lose half part of chips.
...Again, take big risks for big rewards.

Third advice:
- If you lose half part of chips try to keep your mind cool. You have still fairly stack to play tight.
...Keeping your head cool is good advice. I'd also add know how to adjust your strategy for your given stack size vs blinds + antes. and the MTT structure. If you had 25BBs and now have 12BBs, know how to adjust your game play.

- If you lose half part of chips, try to change your game strategy for this moment. If you play more loose, play tight and vice verse.
...The less BBs you have, the looser your hand playing range should be, not tighter. You're going to get dealt a lot of worse hands than you are good hands, but if you're down to 8BBs, you can't be folding hands like K10s when it's folded to you on the button. Again, don't give up your stack and your fold equity waiting for a big hand.

So, I wait posts from you to know, how my article was important or not for you. Give me an answer about mistakes maybe I allowed.
...I don't think there are any mistakes. Just some stuff I disagree with in you post. However, that's not a bad thing and you didn't give any blatantly bad advice like "Fold AA every time 100%!". People have different strategies and goals when they play poker and they play for different reasons. A casual player will approach the game much differently than someone grinding for a living. If your short stack strategy works for you, then more power to you.

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Above.

philthy said:

Above.

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This is right on the money:icon_thum

kcanuck said:

This is right on the money:icon_thum

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I should really proofread what I type for I submit it.

philthy said:

Above.

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Thanx for a huge parse you did with my post. I'd like specific attention especial from Cards Chat Elite person =)