Is there any argument for folding AA preflop on the first hand of a MTT?

rock0001 · Feb 7, 2023

no, unless there are at least 4 players who shove all in before you, in that case you will probably have less than 50% of odds of winning the hand. i would still go all in with aces in that situation but folding can also be a good choice.

Salve · Feb 8, 2023

Marshmalo1994 said:
Maybe if there are too many players all in

It's hard to imagine this in any serious MTT, but if we assume that 4-5 maniacs unexpectedly appeared at the table, then multi-allin is quite possible.
I remember the Open League on the PS... There is AA easy fold if you have 2-3 allins from any2 players in front of you.

dreamer13 · Feb 8, 2023

Never slowplay AA preflop. Unless you're playing at medium or high stakes against experienced and thoughtful opponents, you're probably better off not slowplaying at all, especially with strong value hands like AA. The first and fairly obvious reason is - extracting value. Statistically speaking, AA is the strongest starting hand in hold'em: AA will have 85% equity against any random hand preflop, against other pocket pairs such as KK and QQ, AA will have around 82% equity, and against AKs, AA will have a whopping 88% equity! By playing aggressively preflop, you shrink the field and make it impossible for these hands to hit the board and trap you.Yes, you may not win much money if everyone folds preflop, but remember that it's better to win a small pot than to lose a big one.

Marshmalo1994 · Feb 8, 2023

Salve said:
It's hard to imagine this in any serious MTT, but if we assume that 4-5 maniacs unexpectedly appeared at the table, then multi-allin is quite possible.
I remember the Open League on the PS... There is AA easy fold if you have 2-3 allins from any2 players in front of you.

I had forgotten about that league. The first levels were crazy. 😅
P.s.: I know that doesn't happen every time, but when I managed to entered in the special wcoop $109 main event, I had AK in the first hand and a 62o (or something like that) knocked me out with an pre flop all in.

lyki67 · Feb 8, 2023

Not really. These are the best pocket cards. Only if 6, 7 or 8 of 9 players also go all in...then the probability of losing with these cards becomes much greater.

fundiver199 · Feb 8, 2023

lyki67 said:
Not really. These are the best pocket cards. Only if 6, 7 or 8 of 9 players also go all in...then the probability of losing with these cards becomes much greater.

But calling is still profitable, because you will increase your chip stack with 600-900%, when you win, and you will have more equity than anyone else. Also what is the chance of this actually happening? In millions of hands played online I have never seen it.

MishkaZL · Feb 8, 2023

Dobbler1 said:
I've had aces cracked multiple times in the first couple of hands of a MTT by lunatics that shove with pretty much any two cards. I wonder if there's some sort of ICM argument for folding. The best odds of a single hand cracking your aces is a little less than 25% preflop, but if multiple shoves happen, the odds of one of the shovers cracking your aces goes up. If it were a cash game there's no question because the pot size increases proportionately (or greater than... not sure of the math) to the chances of getting cracked does, so your equity is always good. I think that if it is a deep stack tourney that's not turbo/hyper the case is a little stronger.

Thoughts? Honestly, I don't think I'd fold AA preflop ever (even on the bubble), but it's something I've thought about from time to time, and wonder if anyone has any interesting thoughts.

It is difficult to find an arguments. At least I don't think I would be able to find them for myself. If a player is ready to fold pocket aces, then what are his reasons for playing poker at all?

spunka · Feb 8, 2023

No you will not fold in a freeroll. As you have nothing to lose and much to gain.
Yes you will proabaly fold in a 100$ if you think you can play better than the other players, but as players in 100$ buyin are more “sane”, then that would not happend very often.

tiptools · Feb 8, 2023

When you fold AA then what do you expect to have in order to play?

spunka · Feb 8, 2023

duppis said:
When you fold AA then what do you expect to have in order to play?

Negativ or equal ICM

Baldy86 · Feb 8, 2023

tough question

i think it depends on the tournament . if it is a low buy in tournament or lets say if it is a tournament which the buy in is a small part of your bankroll then i would definitely go all in with AA even when multiple people shove

however if it is a special tournament where you maybe bought in over your bankroll limit and which has a huge pricepool then i personally wouldnt risk my tournament life in that situation . but thats just me

takinitSLEAZEE · Feb 9, 2023

As far as I know there are no two cards that are guaranteed to win from pre-flop to river... So, if there are players shoving and calling in front of you and they have something other than AA, since you have them, then calling w/the best pre-flop hole cards is the right move/play. It's only logical.

GeckoAA · Feb 9, 2023

A few times on 888 I have won myself some tickets worth over $200 and if you can believe it, both times I got AA very early on in the tournament and both times they got cracked but Im never going to fold them in that situation. The only time I consider or have folded AA is when we are near the bubble and there are big stacks raising or shoving all in at my table and my stack is fairly good but not as large as theirs. Then I just fold and wait till Im in the money, then continuing to play normal once again.

G0930 · Feb 9, 2023

fundiver199 said:
But calling is still profitable, because you will increase your chip stack with 600-900%, when you win, and you will have more equity than anyone else. Also what is the chance of this actually happening? In millions of hands played online I have never seen it.

ha, that happened to me in a 1,10$ PKO
7 players shoved, one cracked my aces.
But I still aggree with you the odds of that happening are so low , I would do the same again and probably come out on top next time

Joe · Feb 11, 2023

Watch this video to the end and you’ll know when to fold aces preflop…

Bluffzone68 · Feb 11, 2023

Tracid said:
Watch this video to the end and you’ll know when to fold aces preflop…

crazy hands
love the AA fold

barbados · Feb 11, 2023

I had to throw off such a strong hand often. This is normal if you keep a certain strategy of playing the game. You should always ask yourself the question - what do you lose in case of a losing hand? And proceed from the received response.

valen.bs.95 · Feb 11, 2023

I don't think I would drop AA. Especially at the very beginning of the tournament 😀

szabbancsbet · Feb 11, 2023

I would only fold if more than two players were all in.

ipagan · Feb 11, 2023

What arguements we can give to fold the hand with the biggest equity against any other hand? I think that would be just a wrong move in any situation

BOXING71 · Feb 12, 2023

Thanks for the thread!!!!!!
Thanks to everyone for the discussion, I never folded aces. I change my strategy. I lost and got angry many times, although I understood that this was only a strong hand, or rather the strongest hand at the beginning of the game, everything changes on the river.

JTifenbah · Feb 12, 2023

Preflop never, but post flop sure. If board is wet then easy fold , especialy in early game.

Emily Trott · Feb 12, 2023

I don't think that there is a reason for doing it other than you fear being knocked out of the tournament. You have either the best hand, or are tied for the best hand, going in so anyone else is going to have to improve their hand.

Adieadie · Feb 13, 2023

I will risk with AA

Poker Orifice · Feb 14, 2023

Kashmir said:
I believe you have a very strong argument for doing just that…fold them if you have no equity in the pot. I am struggling with the same problem… I more often lose with a high pocket pair to a table with more than 3 players in the pot. If I’m in middle position and no raiser I’ll come in for 2.5 BB, but if I get more callers or reraiser and another caller behind the ReR then depending on my stack I will call or fold. I’m finding my poker game is weakened by playing online, why? cause it feels so staged with the algorithm that’s play out, and if you play like most poker pros teach then it feels like the game will play a flop which doesn’t connect with you but will often play to the weaker hands that follow into pots and you need to fold your chips away or try to hero out…which never works.

I'd suggest that it isn't taking online play to weaken your game. Suggesting that you'd fold AA if there was a 3Bet + caller that you'd call or fold (depending on your stack). What would your stack size have anything to do with the decision in that spot? That is an extremely simple 4bet spot (for starters).

And as far as OP's question goes... the short answer is 'no'... so is the medium answer. Did I mention the long answer is 'No'.

Seriously, if we're able to get it allin while sitting deep at the start of a tournament and have that go 4 ways... I'm thinking that's a miracle scenario!

Is there any argument for folding AA preflop on the first hand of a MTT?

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