$10 NL HE 6-max:

[budaloto]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.05/$.10

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

What is your thought about hand?
He checked flop, then when i raise on turn, he re-raise.

My thought is if river wasn't club to call, but i still think he bluffed me. I havent play hands against him to know some behaviour.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I would also take a free flop.

Flop
I would also check back. You have decent showdown value with second pair bad kicker, your hand dont need much protection, and its not good enough to go after 3 streets of value.

Turn
Here I would also bet two pair obviously. Now the hand gets interesting, because not only does he check-raise, but its an overbet of 2X the size of the pot. It would be an absurd bluffing line, because he depend on you betting, and then he is risking 11,6 to win 3,6, which mean, this need to work 75% of the time.

So I actually think, you are likely to be beat here, and I would not hate to simply fold now and get away cheaply. A7 and 77 are hands, that improved on the turn, and could make sense to play this way for value. Or maybe he has pocket aces and was hoping to get a chance to check-raise you either preflop or on the flop, which you denied him by not betting. So now he is trying to make up for lost value by overbetting.

River
Flush draw came in and he still jam, which is an even larger overbet of 3-4 times the size of the pot. It can be argued, if sets or two pair take this sizing on a flush completing card, and if not, then he is only representing a flush, which is unlikely to play the flop and turn like this. So he is not representing much.

But at the same time its an absurd bluffing line, and there is an old saying "never go broke in a limped pot", which point to the fact, that the stack to pot ratio is just so deep. So as played I fold here and live to fight another day. I would rather give an unknown player credit for having a big hand, that he played in a weird way, that for making some wild bluff, where he is risiking his whole stack to win a very small pot.

 

[Station_Master]

Nice fold on the river, i dont think this is ever a bluff plus you should have flushes in your range that could call

 

[noprob]

What is your thought about hand?
He checked flop, then when i raise on turn, he re-raise.

My thought is if river wasn't club to call, but i still think he bluffed me. I havent play hands against him to know some behaviour.

Flop (source : optimuspoker.com AsQc3c_Qh7s IP vs X) :



So it's a check back ! you're good.

 

[noprob]

Turn vs X : it's an overbet



and VS a raise, it's a CALL :

 

[noprob]

River is mostly a Fold (5 times out of 6) :

 

[noprob]

I don't understand why you guys don't buy a web solver, you'd get the answer faster than posting your question.

Guys, what do you think the plays are in this spot if the River was 5d instead of 5c ?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Preflop
I would also take a free flop.

Flop
I would also check back. You have decent showdown value with second pair bad kicker, your hand dont need much protection, and its not good enough to go after 3 streets of value.

Turn
Here I would also bet two pair obviously. Now the hand gets interesting, because not only does he check-raise, but its an overbet of 2X the size of the pot. It would be an absurd bluffing line, because he depend on you betting, and then he is risking 11,6 to win 3,6, which mean, this need to work 75% of the time.

So I actually think, you are likely to be beat here, and I would not hate to simply fold now and get away cheaply. A7 and 77 are hands, that improved on the turn, and could make sense to play this way for value. Or maybe he has pocket aces and was hoping to get a chance to check-raise you either preflop or on the flop, which you denied him by not betting. So now he is trying to make up for lost value by overbetting.

River
Flush draw came in and he still jam, which is an even larger overbet of 3-4 times the size of the pot. It can be argued, if sets or two pair take this sizing on a flush completing card, and if not, then he is only representing a flush, which is unlikely to play the flop and turn like this. So he is not representing much.

But at the same time its an absurd bluffing line, and there is an old saying "never go broke in a limped pot", which point to the fact, that the stack to pot ratio is just so deep. So as played I fold here and live to fight another day. I would rather give an unknown player credit for having a big hand, that he played in a weird way, that for making some wild bluff, where he is risiking his whole stack to win a very small pot.

I think you might be giving villain way too much credit for being able to actually 'think'. I can picture the 'spew factor' line here from played (I'm not suggesting to play it differently BUT I am suggesting that we can't assume that villain is thinking along similar lines as we are).
First off, for a R&C table I'm wondering if villain is 4-tabling? Secondly, what are their stats.?

 

[fundiver199]

I think you might be giving villain way too much credit for being able to actually 'think'.

Are you suggesting, we should call down here for 100BB in a limped pot? We dont even have top two pair, so we lose not only to a flush, straight or set but also to all the better two pair. I am not saying the opponent is a thinking player (his line is absurd), but its a microstakes game, and in my experience huge overbets are skewed towards value, especially when bad players make them.

The fish mentality is something like "LOL I have the nuts, I am all in", rather than "how do I maximize value" or "how do I balance my range". Its difficult to say, what he can have here, but could perhaps be pocket aces slowplaying, until Hero takes the bait, and then either ignoring or missing the fact, the flushdraw came in on the river.

Fish love to slowplay big hands, because they dont want to lose their customer. However when the opponent bet, then in their mind, they know, "he has something", so now they think, they can come in for a huge raise and get paid. Maybe they even understand, that their line looks absurd and think, this can induce some light calls out of curiosity.

 

[fundiver199]

I don't understand why you guys don't buy a web solver, you'd get the answer faster than posting your question.

Solvers show the neutral EV strategy against GTO players. Its usefull to know this, because its the baseline from which, we adjust. But in the micros very few players use a GTO strategy, and therefore its interesting to hear the opinion of other players, especially when we face an unusual line like this. And here it goes off the rails already preflop, because the Villain limped into the pot. He did not raise to 3BB, as the solver assume.

The solver likely does not even know how to construct a limping range, because its non-GTO in a no ante game. But even so it does seem reasonable to bet big on the turn, when we improve to two pair, and since we are very high in our range, calling the check-raise is almost certainly GTO as well. We should also be betting hand like Q8 or Q9 when checked to again, so we have a lot of other hands, we can fold to his 2X the pot raise, and the total pot is still only 20BB, which is not much to put in with two pair in a heads-up pot.

However when he jam the river for 4X the size of the pot, we are only supposed to call him 20% of the time, and with the flush coming in and us folding a lot on the turn, Q7 is likely no longer in the top 20% of our range. And even if it is, I would still fold. We only put in 10BB so far, and I think, we can find much better spots than putting in another 90BB just hoping to catch the opponent in some wild bluff.

Guys, what do you think the plays are in this spot if the River was 5d instead of 5c ?

Actually even more of a fold, because then the Villain is telling a more consistent story. Its a bit strange, that he overbet both turn and river, when the nuts changed. But maybe he missed that or thought, Hero could not have a flushdraw after calling the turn. Which could make sense, if Villain had AcAx, AcQx, Ac7x thus blocking Hero from having top pair + flushdraw. This is probably giving the Villain to much credit for advanced thinking though, since he limped in a 5NL cash game.

 

[noprob]

Actually even more of a fold, because then the Villain is telling a more consistent story. Its a bit strange, that he overbet both turn and river, when the nuts changed. But maybe he missed that or thought, Hero could not have a flushdraw after calling the turn. Which could make sense, if Villain had AcAx, AcQx, Ac7x thus blocking Hero from having top pair + flushdraw. This is probably giving the Villain to much credit for advanced thinking though, since he limped in a 5NL cash game.

If River was 5d, optimuspoker.com solver fold a bit less with these 2 holecards, but our range folds more because we have more missed draws in our range.