€5 NL HE 6-max: Is this a fold?

[miklcct]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.02/$.05

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

€

6-max stakes €0.02/€0.04
I was at SB, got dealt 7c 7h

UTG folded, MP limped €0.04, CO folded, BTN raised to €0.18, I called, SB folded, MP folded.

1. Should I 3-bet here instead of a call?

Pot became €0.43 (after rake), flop was 6h 2d 3s. I checked, BTN bet €0.34, I raised to €0.90.

2. Was a check-raise a good idea here as I expected that BTN would most likely have two high overcards and c-bet? Would you expect hands such as 23 or 45 played this way instead of limped pre-flop?

Then BTN shoved to €1.88.

3. Was this a fold? What would be his range?

 

[puzzlefish]

You are pretty much set mining out of position here. You should know what the BTN stack size is vs. your own and be aware that you could get squeezed hard here by BB and the MP limper. It's not a great spot to set mine from. Personally I would probably fold this. Maybe too tight for others.

Betting action is telling you that BTN is willing to stack off. Given the pre-flop betting action the range is wide and would include TT+, sets on the board, and 45s. Nobody should really be limping in cash games unless it is some fancy trap play..

 

[Station_Master]

3bet or fold pre. Mostly fold.
Post flop is not clear as we dont know stack sizes, is buttomn short?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Its important here to note, that BTN only started with around 50BB, because this mean, you are getting bad implied odds to setmine. It also mean, you cant really 3-bet and then fold to a 4-bet, when he open to 4,5BB. Or at least you can not use a normal out of position 4X 3-bet size, since this would be to 18BB, which would commit you to the pot.

So because of this stack size issue I dont like either option, and for that reason I would just fold. This might seem quite tight, but its ok to play tighter against a 4,5BB open than a more standard 2,5BB open. And if you can not answer the question "how I am going to make money here", its always better to fold.

Flop
BTN is betting pretty large, and if he is a good player (questionable given the stakes), he should not bet his entire range for this sizing on this board. So the idea, he mostly have overcards, is a bit optimistic. And for that reason I do think, check-raising is a bit of an overplay. Its better to just call and then see, what happen on the turn. And if he continue bombing the pot, probably just fold.

Its easy to get caught up in nominal hand strength like "I have an overpair", but the better way to think about this situation is, that you have a weak pair. The opponent can have all the better overpairs, and your hand is not going to remain an overpair until the river. Or if it does, then the board was paired or run out with a 1-liner to a straight. So having 77 on 632 is not the same as having KK on Q32.

As played you already put in half the effective stack after raising, so at this point you cant really fold, since you are getting 3:1. So its one of those situations, where you are most likely behind, but you are also committed. And by the way this is something, you need to think about before raising. You cant just click buttons without paying attention to stack sizes and considering, what you will do, if the opponent comes back over the top.

 

[miklcct]

You are pretty much set mining out of position here. You should know what the BTN stack size is vs. your own and be aware that you could get squeezed hard here by BB and the MP limper. It's not a great spot to set mine from. Personally I would probably fold this. Maybe too tight for others.

Betting action is telling you that BTN is willing to stack off. Given the pre-flop betting action the range is wide and would include TT+, sets on the board, and 45s. Nobody should really be limping in cash games unless it is some fancy trap play..

My stack was €4.57, the limper €0.96 and BTN €2.06 at the beginning. How is 50 BB poker different from 100 BB poker? Isn't 50 BB still a large stack in terms of play?

Also, in terms of range, 77 is a favourite against everything apart from higher pocket pairs, what is the reason to fold it pre until we limit the villain's range to mostly pocket pairs?

 

[puzzlefish]

My stack was €4.57, the limper €0.96 and BTN €2.06 at the beginning. How is 50 BB poker different from 100 BB poker? Isn't 50 BB still a large stack in terms of play?

It has to do with implied odds. There are math models that exist to look at this. For a shortcut, the villain should have at least 15x their pre-flop bet left in their stack to make set mining profitable for you. But in this case not only do they not have that, but there are also other players left to act that put you at greater risk. Do some reading on it, there are articles on Upswing Poker, 888, and others.

 

[Goggelheimer]

My stack was €4.57, the limper €0.96 and BTN €2.06 at the beginning. How is 50 BB poker different from 100 BB poker? Isn't 50 BB still a large stack in terms of play?

Also, in terms of range, 77 is a favourite against everything apart from higher pocket pairs, what is the reason to fold it pre until we limit the villain's range to mostly pocket pairs?

So with this setup setmining is wrong.

1. 3-bet in the SB 99+, AQ + , AJs + some KJs +, so a pretty thight top left range. Technically you would 4-bet with such a move.

2. You should google the 10/20/30 rule (sometimes 15/25/35 rule) for setmining. This is the reason to fold it pre.

 

[miklcct]

It has to do with implied odds. There are math models that exist to look at this. For a shortcut, the villain should have at least 15x their pre-flop bet left in their stack to make set mining profitable for you. But in this case not only do they not have that, but there are also other players left to act that put you at greater risk. Do some reading on it, there are articles on Upswing Poker, 888, and others.

Without the stack size for a set hunt, does 77 become unprofitable to play even it is a favourite against anything which isn't a pocket pair pre-flop? Is it because I am frequently forced to fold when a higher card appear on the board?

 

[puzzlefish]

Without the stack size for a set hunt, does 77 become unprofitable to play even it is a favourite against anything which isn't a pocket pair pre-flop? Is it because I am frequently forced to fold when a higher card appear on the board?

Lower pocket pairs in general play poorly post-flop. It's especially unprofitable in multi-way pots and situations where you can be exposed to getting squeezed.

 

[fundiver199]

Also, in terms of range, 77 is a favourite against everything apart from higher pocket pairs, what is the reason to fold it pre until we limit the villain's range to mostly pocket pairs?

Being out of position and without initiative you are going to realise your equity very poorly. This is especially true, if the limper comes along, which this time he did not, but most of the time he will. Most boards will have overcards to your 77, and then its really tough to continue multiway, if someone bet the flop. Or maybe its a low board like this, but it checks through. And then the turn is a Q or K, and now you have no idea, if that card hit one of the opponents. So its very difficult to realise the showdown value of your pair. And for that reason you depend on making a lot of money the few times, you flop a set.