€5 NL HE 6-max: lost my whole deep stack with a straight to a full house

[miklcct]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.02/$.05

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

€

€4 NL €0.02/€0.04

I was at SB, stack €4.03
BB had €1.11
UTG had €6.81
CO had €4
BTN had €9.63

Pre-flop
I post small blind €0.02
BB post big blind €0.04
I got dealt As Ts
UTG called €0.04
CO raised to €0.14
BTN called €0.14
I called €0.12
BB called €0.10
Pot became €0.70

Flop Kh Qs Js
I bet €0.70
BB folded
UTG folded
CO folded
BTN called €0.70
Pot became €2.10

Turn Kc
I bet €0.70
BTN called €0.70
Pot became €3.50

River 3h
I bet €1.75
BTN raised all-in €8.09
I called all-in €0.74 to €2.49
Uncalled bet €5.60 returned to BTN
Pot became €8.31

Showdown
BTN had [Jc Jd] Js Kh Kc, jacks full of kings
I had [As Ts] Kh Qs Js, a straight A high
BTN won the pot

Which step did I do wrong? I lost the whole night of winning on this hand. Why didn't my aggressive bet worked at the flop and the BTN got a chance to complete his full house?

 

[puzzlefish]

Probably the wrong step was calling the big overbet on the river.

This is how poker is sometimes and you have to know when to make a big laydown to save you deep stack of 4 euros.

 

[miklcct]

Probably the wrong step was calling the big overbet on the river.

This is how poker is sometimes and you have to know when to make a big laydown to save you deep stack of 4 euros.

When he shoved, the pot odd for me has become so low (about 10%) so it must be the mathematically correct move for me to call the shove as well? How can I know that he has more than 90% chance to have the full house so that folding was the correct move when he shoved?

The cards which can form a full house or better are KK KQ KJ K3 QQ JJ and 33. How can I deduce the exact probability of him holding one of these?

 

[monkeytilter]

Probably the wrong step was calling the big overbet on the river.

This is how poker is sometimes and you have to know when to make a big laydown to save you deep stack of 4 euros.

There was no 'big overbet', he had to call 0.74 river for a pot of ~8 (effective stacks of 4.00)

 

[monkeytilter]

Questions for you: Would you fold a set of Jacks on the flop? Do you want villain to fold?

I'd chalk this up as a cooler, sometimes big hands collide and you'll get stacked, reverse the hands and the stacks go the other way. That's why you need to be sufficiently bankrolled to ride out these mini upsets.

Only quibble here is flatting ATs from the SB, I think with the rake you'd be better off 3 betting as a squeeze or just folding preflop (There are much better spots in micro games). Truth is you'd probably still be getting stacks in on the flop in a 3 bet pot but at least you'd have a proper bad beat story ..or just maybe if villain 4 bets big enough you can get away from AT preflop.

 

[Fallenglory]

I don't think you did anything wrong persé, you did make a rather small turn bet about 33% of pot. I would bet bigger personally, were you luring lesser hands in maybe? I think it's sus when villain makes the same bet twice.

Wouldn't have made a difference in this case. Like Monkeytilter said: the turn is a cooler.

 

[Station_Master]

This is a cooler,but you basically butchered every street!
Squeeze pre, dont' lead out flop. Turn and river bet sizes make no sense.

 

[miklcct]

Questions for you: Would you fold a set of Jacks on the flop? Do you want villain to fold?

I'd chalk this up as a cooler, sometimes big hands collide and you'll get stacked, reverse the hands and the stacks go the other way. That's why you need to be sufficiently bankrolled to ride out these mini upsets.

Only quibble here is flatting ATs from the SB, I think with the rake you'd be better off 3 betting as a squeeze or just folding preflop (There are much better spots in micro games). Truth is you'd probably still be getting stacks in on the flop in a 3 bet pot but at least you'd have a proper bad beat story ..or just maybe if villain 4 bets big enough you can get away from AT preflop.

3-bet with AT even with a raise AND a call? How does an additional call affect the range of 3-bets?

 

[miklcct]

I don't think you did anything wrong persé, you did make a rather small turn bet about 33% of pot. I would bet bigger personally, were you luring lesser hands in maybe? I think it's sus when villain makes the same bet twice.

Wouldn't have made a difference in this case. Like Monkeytilter said: the turn is a cooler.

I was hoping for the Ks for a big bet (a royal flush), but when the Kc came out I started to have a concern that it would upgrade villain's hand to a full house. I wanted to induce a fold if it didn't hit villain, but planned to fold myself if he raised me on the turn. The board was so wet that a 3-of-a-kind only would likely fold against my previous aggressive bets. He didn't raise so I didn't expect his hand upgraded by the turn.

 

[Station_Master]

3-bet with AT even with a raise AND a call? How does an additional call affect the range of 3-bets?

It makes 3betting more attractive but just gp linear. ATs is probably bottom of squeezing range. I wouldnt call any hands from SB in this spot.

 

[Station_Master]

I was hoping for the Ks for a big bet (a royal flush), but when the Kc came out I started to have a concern that it would upgrade villain's hand to a full house. I wanted to induce a fold if it didn't hit villain, but planned to fold myself if he raised me on the turn. The board was so wet that a 3-of-a-kind only would likely fold against my previous aggressive bets. He didn't raise so I didn't expect his hand upgraded by the turn.

You seem keen to make villains fold, both on the flop and with this explanation of the turn bet. The point is to get called by weaker hands, you are betting for value.

As played i think it's better to check the turn as your huge flop size means he will have plenty of full houses, whilst alot of 1 pair hands will fold anyway. You can then check call down depending on sizes.

 

[Station_Master]

But the real error is potting the flop, just check someone is bound to bet and you can x raise or x call depending on action

 

[miklcct]

But the real error is potting the flop, just check someone is bound to bet and you can x raise or x call depending on action

Doesn't checking the flop mean I have a bad hand? Villain will likely check as well to see the turn for free if he has a bad hand and I would have also lost my equity as well.

You seem keen to make villains fold, both on the flop and with this explanation of the turn bet. The point is to get called by weaker hands, you are betting for value.

As played i think it's better to check the turn as your huge flop size means he will have plenty of full houses, whilst alot of 1 pair hands will fold anyway. You can then check call down depending on sizes.

Yes, I wanted to protect my equity.

 

[Station_Master]

Doesn't checking the flop mean I have a bad hand? Villain will likely check as well to see the turn for free if he has a bad hand and I would have also lost my equity as well.

Yes, I wanted to protect my equity.

You can check good and bad hands, you dont have to play face up. Especially out of position as a preflop caller, its good to check alot.

You want to protect but against what? The hands with meaningful equity v you are 2 pairs and sets, and they are likely to bet anyway.

 

[burba]

The truth is: You played bad.
You should have right folded AT OOP.
Then with the paired board you should have slowed down and folded to a raise.

But I know the adrenaline flow when flopping the nut straight not believing that you still don't have the nuts when the board pairs.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Consider dropping down to 2nl & work on value betting (& sizing)

Keep posting hands. I'm sure you'll find some good advice from some of the members (ie. Station_Master, monkeytilter & others)

 

[miklcct]

Consider dropping down to 2nl & work on value betting (& sizing)

Keep posting hands. I'm sure you'll find some good advice from some of the members (ie. Station_Master, monkeytilter & others)

4NL is the minimum stake on that platform.

 

[puzzlefish]

When he shoved, the pot odd for me has become so low (about 10%) so it must be the mathematically correct move for me to call the shove as well? How can I know that he has more than 90% chance to have the full house so that folding was the correct move when he shoved?

The cards which can form a full house or better are KK KQ KJ K3 QQ JJ and 33. How can I deduce the exact probability of him holding one of these?

You're right about calling the shove with the pot odds. I may have misread the hand when I made my initial post. I don't think you can practically calculate any exact probabilities mid-hand unless you are able to count combinations very quickly.

Think about what hands are continuing against your pot sized bet on the flop. That should narrow it down substantially.

There was no 'big overbet', he had to call 0.74 river for a pot of ~8 (effective stacks of 4.00)

I know what you mean, there was an overbet but the effective stack made it so that it was essentially meaningless.

 

[blueskies]

BTN didn't 3bet the CO raise pre so you can rule out KK QQ and possibly JJ (depending on if you have read on BTN or not), so when the board pairs the K on the turn you are scared of only KJ, KQ, and JJ. The only thing you could have done being OOP is to check/call turn and check/call river.

It's one of those things what are ya gonna do. AT suited pre is ok to call in a multiway given the pot odds.

It's just flopping straights look great on the surface but are very vulnerable to being outdrawn.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I dont hate calling quite as much as some other people, since suited aces play ok multiway. But you are out of position and not getting a good price, so it is more of a 3-bet or fold spot. Folding is a little tight but honestly its the simplest option and keeps you out of trouble, if you are not super strong postflop.

Flop
I dont completely hate leading here, since its a multiway pot, but when you go full pot, you are getting lots of folds from hands, you want to continue. Also the risk, it gets checked through, seem very small, so why not check and then see, what happen? Its almost like, you want to announce to everyone, that "hey I hit this flop very hard, please play perfect and fold".

Turn
This is the worst card in the deck, because many of the hands, you were trying to get value from, now beat you, QJ got counterfeited, and AK is now less likely. So I think, you need to change to more of a showdown mode now. Which mean checking and then making some decisions depending on, what he does. Ideally you want him to check back, and then maybe you can go for thin value on the river.

River
I think, this is a check again, and if you are going to bet, you need to jam. There is no point in leaving yourself a little bit behind and then face this awkward situation, where you are committed, if he shove, but you are basically also always beat. If a worse hand is going to call €1,75, then its also going to call €2,49.

Results
This is a bit of a cooler, but there are 13 combos of logical full houses on this board. So its not completely impossible to get away, and if you check-call down, then at least you open the door for him to bluff. Whereas when you go bet, bet, bet, I think, you create a situation, where you mostly get action, when you are beat or perhaps chopping with another AT.

 

[eetenor]

€4 NL €0.02/€0.04

I was at SB, stack €4.03
BB had €1.11
UTG had €6.81
CO had €4
BTN had €9.63

Pre-flop
I post small blind €0.02
BB post big blind €0.04
I got dealt As Ts
UTG called €0.04
CO raised to €0.14
BTN called €0.14
I called €0.12
BB called €0.10
Pot became €0.70

Flop Kh Qs Js
I bet €0.70
BB folded
UTG folded
CO folded
BTN called €0.70
Pot became €2.10

Turn Kc
I bet €0.70
BTN called €0.70
Pot became €3.50

River 3h
I bet €1.75
BTN raised all-in €8.09
I called all-in €0.74 to €2.49
Uncalled bet €5.60 returned to BTN
Pot became €8.31

Showdown
BTN had [Jc Jd] Js Kh Kc, jacks full of kings
I had [As Ts] Kh Qs Js, a straight A high
BTN won the pot

Which step did I do wrong? I lost the whole night of winning on this hand. Why didn't my aggressive bet worked at the flop and the BTN got a chance to complete his full house?

Your lead was very wrong.
You have the nuts and a redraw to a better hand why are we trying to make people fold? We want to be building this pot multiway not getting HU vs the only hand that has the equity to beat us. Leading makes your V call with hands that can outdraw you only we always want our V to call with bad hands as well like JT or 2 low flush cards etc.. as well as their KQ KJ JJ

On the flop when we get called, we want to be thinking about what cards we do not want to see on the turn.
The K is the worst possible card for us--why not an A because BTN never has AA but they have KQ KJ sometimes JJ

On turn we no longer have the best hand possible so we proceed with caution. We can check turn because we will have a boat that we can check as well. Why check? As we get more skilled as players, we recognize spots where we cannot get 3 streets of Value from worse hands. This is one of those spots.
You lead flop thinking hands as strong as KJ should not call you so what hand do you expect to call the turn bet that you get value from?


------Thinking that you would get folds on the flop from hands that beat you on the turn is a huge error in your poker understanding.-----

Your study point is the above error. You want to be much better at understanding board interactions based on your betting actions.