Can I double barrel here? A5s IP 3bet pot

[VrakasYi]

Game #2290164619: Table €10 NL - 0.05/0.10 - No Limit Hold'Em - 16:17:03 2025/08/14
*** Seated players ***
Seat 1: Badwitch (€20.97)
Seat 2: JohnnyRiva (€9.25)
Seat 3: Sorjutan4 (€18.75)
Seat 4: ddddssdfg (€15.48)
Seat 5: iatlpitw (€10) HERO IN BU
*** Blinds and button ***
iatlpitw has the button
Badwitch posts small blind €0.05
JohnnyRiva posts big blind €0.10

*** Preflop ***
HJ raises €0.30 to €0.30
ddddssdfg folds

HERO raises €0.90 to €0.90

Badwitch folds
JohnnyRiva folds
HJ calls €0.60

*** Flop *** [Qs 8d Jd]
HJ checks
HERO bets €0.98 - I think this board is slightly better for us (is it?), So I bet in order to make Jx and lower pairs to fold
HJ calls €0.98

*** Turn *** [Qs 8d Jd] [3c]
HJ checks
iatlpitw checks (timed out) - Should we double barrel here? If so, what size?

*** River *** [Qs 8d Jd] [3c] [2c]
HJ checks
iatlpitw checks - Looking back I think villain shows a lot of weakness and we should bet large here, around pot+ in order to make Jx and pairs to fold

Villain has TJo

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Fine spot to 3-bet light.

Flop
As far as I can see, the hand history does not tell your hold cards, but the headline say, you had A5s, which usually is supposed to mean A5 suited. So we dont know the suit of your cards, and obviously this matter a lot on a 2-tone board, because you either have an A high flushdraw, a BDFD or no flushdraw. With no flushdraw A5 is a really bad hand on this board, and should probably just check back with intention to give up. Maybe spike an A on the turn and try to get to showdown.

You ask, if the board is slightly better for your range, and I dont know the answer. But I also dont think, it matter at all. The board is all over the opponents range, and he has a ton of hands, that can continue. You also have a ton of hands, that are better than A5 no flushdraw, and just because you 3-bet preflop, does not mean, you have to win the pot postflop, when your 3-bet failed. Of course its a very different story, if you had Ad5d for the A high flushdraw. Then sure go ahead and bet it. As5s for the BDFD can also be an ok hand to bet, since it can pick up equity and continue on some turns.

Turn
Only Ad5d should bet now. As I already said, Ah5h and Ac5c should not even have bet the flop, because they are complete garbage on this board.

River
This card was as much of a brick, as it could possibly be, so if you bet now, you are basically saying, you have a hand like maybe QTs or AJ, that checked back turn for some pot control and are now going for thin value. And since such hands would bet relatively small, then a large bet is only representing a bluff. So IF you are going to bluff, you need to choose a sizing, you would also take with hands like QT or AJ, that you played like this.

Showdown
I think, you are very results oriented. Its ok, that Villain had JT and won the pot. If anything you should probably have saved the flop bet. I also think, you are off in your assumptions, that JT should fold to a bet at any point in this hand. He was correct to call your flop bet, and he should also have called again on the turn with second pair + a gutshot. And as played he should have called a delayed dubble barrel on the river, since he still beat bluffs, no draws got there, and you have capped your range by checking back turn.

 

[VrakasYi]

Preflop
Fine spot to 3-bet light.

Flop
As far as I can see, the hand history does not tell your hold cards, but the headline say, you had A5s, which usually is supposed to mean A5 suited. So we dont know the suit of your cards, and obviously this matter a lot on a 2-tone board, because you either have an A high flushdraw, a BDFD or no flushdraw. With no flushdraw A5 is a really bad hand on this board, and should probably just check back with intention to give up. Maybe spike an A on the turn and try to get to showdown.

You ask, if the board is slightly better for your range, and I dont know the answer. But I also dont think, it matter at all. The board is all over the opponents range, and he has a ton of hands, that can continue. You also have a ton of hands, that are better than A5 no flushdraw, and just because you 3-bet preflop, does not mean, you have to win the pot postflop, when your 3-bet failed. Of course its a very different story, if you had Ad5d for the A high flushdraw. Then sure go ahead and bet it. As5s for the BDFD can also be an ok hand to bet, since it can pick up equity and continue on some turns.

Turn
Only Ad5d should bet now. As I already said, Ah5h and Ac5c should not even have bet the flop, because they are complete garbage on this board.

River
This card was as much of a brick, as it could possibly be, so if you bet now, you are basically saying, you have a hand like maybe QTs or AJ, that checked back turn for some pot control and are now going for thin value. And since such hands would bet relatively small, then a large bet is only representing a bluff. So IF you are going to bluff, you need to choose a sizing, you would also take with hands like QT or AJ, that you played like this.

Showdown
I think, you are very results oriented. Its ok, that Villain had JT and won the pot. If anything you should probably have saved the flop bet. I also think, you are off in your assumptions, that JT should fold to a bet at any point in this hand. He was correct to call your flop bet, and he should also have called again on the turn with second pair + a gutshot. And as played he should have called a delayed dubble barrel on the river, since he still beat bluffs, no draws got there, and you have capped your range by checking back turn.

Thanks for the insight.

Are there any flops that are bad enough for opponent and good enough for us, even without a flush draw?

 

[Station_Master]

Whats your hand, A5s but of which suits?

 

[primrose]

Yeah please edit in both your hole cards and the pot sizes into the OP.

 

[fundiver199]

Thanks for the insight.

Are there any flops that are bad enough for opponent and good enough for us, even without a flush draw?

Boards like or can often be C-bet for a small sizing with your entire range both in single raised pots and 3-bet pots.

 

[eetenor]

Game #2290164619: Table €10 NL - 0.05/0.10 - No Limit Hold'Em - 16:17:03 2025/08/14
*** Seated players ***
Seat 1: Badwitch (€20.97)
Seat 2: JohnnyRiva (€9.25)
Seat 3: Sorjutan4 (€18.75)
Seat 4: ddddssdfg (€15.48)
Seat 5: iatlpitw (€10) HERO IN BU
*** Blinds and button ***
iatlpitw has the button
Badwitch posts small blind €0.05
JohnnyRiva posts big blind €0.10

*** Preflop ***
HJ raises €0.30 to €0.30
ddddssdfg folds

HERO raises €0.90 to €0.90

Badwitch folds
JohnnyRiva folds
HJ calls €0.60

*** Flop *** [Qs 8d Jd]
HJ checks
HERO bets €0.98 - I think this board is slightly better for us (is it?), So I bet in order to make Jx and lower pairs to fold
HJ calls €0.98

*** Turn *** [Qs 8d Jd] [3c]
HJ checks
iatlpitw checks (timed out) - Should we double barrel here? If so, what size?

*** River *** [Qs 8d Jd] [3c] [2c]
HJ checks
iatlpitw checks - Looking back I think villain shows a lot of weakness and we should bet large here, around pot+ in order to make Jx and pairs to fold

Villain has TJo

you state
"So I bet in order to make Jx and lower pairs to fold" What JX hands call a three- bet--- build that range. Can we really expect those hands to fold on this flop? If we cannot get Jx to fold on the flop if we want JX to fold what do we have to do on further streets? Should we even be thinking we could get those JX combos to fold without putting max pressure ie: going all-in at some point?
In a 3 bet pot call OOP which is more likely a JX hand or a QX hand? When we bet flop we know we cannot get Qx or JX or flush draws to fold most often so why that sizing?

As to that board it hits our V range very well, this is not a board that we have a big advantage on. We have AA KK but they have JJ 88 QJ T9 KT etc etc

 

[Grzegorz00pl]

Game #2290164619: Table €10 NL - 0.05/0.10 - No Limit Hold'Em - 16:17:03 2025/08/14
*** Seated players ***
Seat 1: Badwitch (€20.97)
Seat 2: JohnnyRiva (€9.25)
Seat 3: Sorjutan4 (€18.75)
Seat 4: ddddssdfg (€15.48)
Seat 5: iatlpitw (€10) HERO IN BU
*** Blinds and button ***
iatlpitw has the button
Badwitch posts small blind €0.05
JohnnyRiva posts big blind €0.10

*** Preflop ***
HJ raises €0.30 to €0.30
ddddssdfg folds

HERO raises €0.90 to €0.90

Badwitch folds
JohnnyRiva folds
HJ calls €0.60

*** Flop *** [Qs 8d Jd]
HJ checks
HERO bets €0.98 - I think this board is slightly better for us (is it?), So I bet in order to make Jx and lower pairs to fold
HJ calls €0.98

*** Turn *** [Qs 8d Jd] [3c]
HJ checks
iatlpitw checks (timed out) - Should we double barrel here? If so, what size?

*** River *** [Qs 8d Jd] [3c] [2c]
HJ checks
iatlpitw checks - Looking back I think villain shows a lot of weakness and we should bet large here, around pot+ in order to make Jx and pairs to fold

Villain has TJo

I try to use hand converter, but it doesn't work: https://www.cardschat.com/poker/tools/hand-converter/

As I see Villiain got JJ - 2nd pair. There was also straight possible if He had 109s or 109. There is no flush or FullHouse so Straight should be the strongest hand. Of course set or overpair (like AA, KK, QQ is also possible).

This is cash game so "Run it Twice" option is avaliable. If I got high bankroll - I would play All In and Run It Twice xD Maybe I woild get A at the table xD

 

[VrakasYi]

Yeah please edit in both your hole cards and the pot sizes into the OP.

I don't see an edit button.

But it is okay, I think I understand that the hand (Ah 5h) is too weak to even cbet bluff

I will keep in mind for future posts to edit in the hand and pot sizes

 

[fundiver199]

But it is okay, I think I understand that the hand (Ah 5h) is too weak to even cbet bluff

Yeah I dont like that C-bet. I dont think, you are getting nearly enough folds, and when he call, your only choises are basically to give up, or to run some massive tripple barrel for your entire stack with a complete airball hand, that cant even really improve. Hitting a 5 will give you bottom pair, and while hitting an A will give you top pair, he could easily have you outkicked or have two pair or a straight on a board of QJ8-A.

 

[primrose]

I don't see an edit button.

Ah, yeah, it looks like it disappears after a while. Didn't know that. (For new posts/comments it's on the bottom left.)

 

[hardongear]

I hate the C-bet on that flop here. While in your range it's also smack dab in villains range and you hit nothing and if he did he isn't folding unless you're the tightest nit on the planet and he has nothing. He likely hit as you didn't. No double barrel obviously and fold to any decent sized bet. Praying to get too showdown checking.

This is a better flop for value betting when you hit something over bluffing when you hit nothing when the flop is in the middle of both player ranges. At least in my opinion.

Cheers!!!

 

[blueskies]

If you had Ad5d it's fine to cbet the flop. Otherwise just check the flop and fight another hand. Highly likely villain has a piece of this board.

Since you cbet, you might as well keep going IF you think he will fold. I.e., you have seen him actually lay down some hands against double/triple barrels. Some guys just call down if they have anything.

Once you checked the turn, chances are he's gonna call your river bet regardless of size.

Seeing how this dude called a threebet with TJos OOP though, he's likely someone to valuebet against, not bluff against.

 

[John A]

Long answer is no.

Don't c-bet the flop, don't bet the turn.