Just a reminder if someone bets big he might have it.

[Goggelheimer]

Hi fellow members this hand history as a reminder bluffing is overrated.

Pure value is what matters, cash out choosen because of GG mostly miracle dealing.

 

[Silversurfer99]

i did not get it either, but it`s nice if they get creative like this!

 

[monkeytilter]

Are you better off running it more than once rather than taking the cash out if variance is a concern?

Am I right in thinking running it twice/thrice costs nothing but cash-out costs 1%?, so it's guaranteed -EV?

 

[Silversurfer99]

If you have nothing, 2$ can be alot..

 

[Goggelheimer]

Are you better off running it more than once rather than taking the cash out if variance is a concern?

Am I right in thinking running it twice/thrice costs nothing but cash-out costs 1%?, so it's guaranteed -EV?

Both is -EV if the pot is split up in the event that only one draw gives you a win both have to pay rake, so there is the house edge.
The biggest minus -EV ist taking the money directly. But better cash in your bag than losing due to GG-Poker miracle dealing.
Even highstakes tournament players with a weekly buy in scedule of 10k plus say, GG makes GG things (maybe in point of dealing?).
But losing the whole due to spezialized GG dealing is max -EV.

But guys your max EV view/discussion is not and never has been the matter of this post.

 

[monkeytilter]

Both is -EV if the pot is split up in the event that only one draw gives you a win both have to pay rake, so there is the house edge.
The biggest minus -EV ist taking the money directly. But better cash in your bag than losing due to GG-Poker miracle dealing.
Even highstakes tournament players with a weekly buy in scedule of 10k plus say, GG makes GG things (maybe in point of dealing?).
But losing the whole due to spezialized GG dealing is max -EV.

But guys your max EV view/discussion is not and never has been the matter of this post.

I'll start a new post on the subject (seems a bit of a sore point for you), I just want to understand the EV of the options - congrats on getting top pair paid by 2nd pair/gutshot @2nl - wtg

 

[G0930]

Are you better off running it more than once rather than taking the cash out if variance is a concern?

Am I right in thinking running it twice/thrice costs nothing but cash-out costs 1%?, so it's guaranteed -EV?

Payout is definetly more secure.
You could end up with 100% loss with the running twice option.. split pot isn't really desirable also.
With the payout option you forfeit a portion of the pot but you still have a guaranteed profit.

Why OP is calling it "pure value" is beyond me though

 

[Rmi]

I think you turned your hand into a meaningless bluff, and I don't see on the flop where your hand would be winning.

 

[Goggelheimer]

Well betting sequence proflop may be the help who has value and who not.

It is a clearly face open played spot with a 4-bet from initial openraiser. The ranges (if you like to name 34 combos a range) are here so narrow (for both sides QQ+, AKs/o)

I am the guy with AK. I don´t think I have bluffed.

 

[Station_Master]

Fortunately your opponent was dreadful. Any competent opponent folds the flop to your bet (with QQ given the board and its a 4bet pot). You need to bet small on the flop and get value from hands you beat then bet most turns and rivers

 

[Goggelheimer]

Fortunately your opponent was dreadful. Any competent opponent folds the flop to your bet (with QQ given the board and its a 4bet pot). You need to bet small on the flop and get value from hands you beat then bet most turns and rivers

Maybe you are right on NL 25 and above, the players would have folded the gutshot on the flop, there could the check OOP be the better option, give the villain rope and see what happens.
Yes in theory this may be ok, if I want to play to turn and river and make mistakes there(J or Q comes in on one of these streets).
Sometimes the question is where do I or villain make the most mistakes, and mostly it is preflop or flop.
Betting small will/shall keep ranges wide but in this case ranges are no longer wide, it is a 4-bet pot.
With top two pair and the low SPR I want to play for stacks on this flop even on this realatively wet and dynamic flop.
But I like to work on the redline and have good non showdown winnings, if I play cashgame.
I think way to many hands go to showdown these days, this is due solver logic driven play, imo.
The overbet on the flop should give villain the image that I have somthing like JJ, TT and have to fear these AK, AA, KK.

 

[puzzlefish]

All I got from this thread is a migraine.

 

[MK_]

All I got from this thread is a migraine.

... gave me a bit of heartburn watching someone let the guy off the hook when he's 80/20🤢👎

 

[Station_Master]

Maybe you are right on NL 25 and above, the players would have folded the gutshot on the flop, there could the check OOP be the better option, give the villain rope and see what happens.
Yes in theory this may be ok, if I want to play to turn and river and make mistakes there(J or Q comes in on one of these streets).
Sometimes the question is where do I or villain make the most mistakes, and mostly it is preflop or flop.
Betting small will/shall keep ranges wide but in this case ranges are no longer wide, it is a 4-bet pot.
With top two pair and the low SPR I want to play for stacks on this flop even on this realatively wet and dynamic flop.
But I like to work on the redline and have good non showdown winnings, if I play cashgame.
I think way to many hands go to showdown these days, this is due solver logic driven play, imo.
The overbet on the flop should give villain the image that I have somthing like JJ, TT and have to fear these AK, AA, KK.

So do you want the gutshot to fold or call, its not really clear what you are trying to say. I think you should be trying to get value which means betting small, the gutshots call but so what you are the equity favourite.

This stuff about redline makes no sense, just play good poker and the redline sorts itself.

If a J or Q comes on the turn then play from there, i.e. check and maybe even fold to a bet (depending on size)

 

[Poker Orifice]

The difference between trying to win... & trying not to lose.

 

[Hilux]

I agree. In a spot like this, the preflop betting sequence already tells a lot about the ranges. After the open and the 4-bet, both ranges are very narrow - usually something like QQ+, AK. If you have AK there, it’s not really a bluff. It’s more a standard value/stack-off hand in that kind of preflop situation.

 

[SpanRmonka]

Quick reply to the point of the post. Yes I agree, many times when people bet big they have it, its a reminder not to call with 3rd pair.

I know its tempting to take the cashout, but if it was profitable for the player, it wouldn't be there. I personally very very rarely cash out, its just giving money away long term, you're already fighting the rake, but if you keep cashing out you are gifting moeny back to the site.

Love the way you've managed to make even this thread, essentially a rigged thread.

By my calculation, pleas anyone feel free to correct me, you've paid a 3% fee for cashig out.....how is this worth it if you're doing it multiple times per session?
The cashout is 76.34% of the pot, whereas you had 79.34% when the chips went in.

I don't really understand exactly when the rake comes off, as I don't play a lot of cash.