Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[Figaroo2]

Quick question for John or anyone else in the thread who can give the answer with any authority.
What are reasonable fold to flop c bet stats for FR and 6max?

 

[TimovieMan]

LOL.

I see what you did there.

 

[Figaroo2]

LOL.
I see what you did there.

Mate I can't get to my leakbuster to check. You know why of course I want to be in a position of knowledge when I reply to your troll.

 

[John A]

Alright guys I'm back from vacation. What's been happening? How are your games coming along? What's new? What did you eat for breakfast? Fill me in...

 

[rhombus]

Alright guys I'm back from vacation.
What's been happening? Figaroo cant get his leakbuster to work
How are your games coming along? Slowly
What's new? Not alot
What did you eat for breakfast? 2 Weetabix
Fill me in...Depending on where you live in England, that comment has 3 meanings

 

[rhombus]

Quick question for John or anyone else in the thread who can give the answer with any authority.
What are reasonable fold to flop c bet stats for FR and 6max?

Are these the ones you want??

6Max
Flop Fold vs Cbet 41.7 - 53.8
Flop vs Raise Fold% 43.6 - 52

Full Ring
Flop Fold vs Cbet 46.7 - 64
Flop vs Raise Fold% 37.6 - 56.7

 

[Figaroo2]

We have a troll in Tim's thread. He's Captain fantastic apparently. I was going to say something when I'm ready to answer my question posted three above.
edit I now have fold to flop c bet
Optimal range FR 47-64%
6MAX 42-54%.

Dakota and Donna took down an event in Las Vegas which is great especially as I had part of Daks action.
I'm happy with two good profits off the two players I decided to back at wsop
The thread has been quiet I think the only hand posted was the TT one from me at 50nl . I've had a couple of short sessions at 50nl FR with strict table and seat selection and am doing okay.
On the TT I was looking for feeback on how I played it OOP

 

[rhombus]

TT hand

OOP better to lead out, if in position then check back
Seen people lead out small on dry boards for easy take downs and also if someone wants to get tricky it usually wont cost too much if they Raise.

As you checked the Turn and they didn't lead out on the flush draw, I wouldn't worry to much about the lead out on the River. Easy Call for me too

 

[Figaroo2]

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...less-showdown-monkey-281391/post-3135153.html
lol like I said a Troll

 

[rhombus]

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...less-showdown-monkey-281391/post-3135153.html
lol like I said a Troll

saw that guy the other day in a thread talking bs. Just a Reg troller with nothing else better to do

 

[grzech]

Interested

Thats big wright
My playing is meaningless - never in these tournaments cardschat not reached the minimum paid placement
I think I'm weak

 

[rhombus]

Thats big wright
My playing is meaningless - never in these tournaments cardschat not reached the minimum paid placement
I think I'm weak

??????????????????????

 

[John A]

Hehe, nice. I don't know that breakfast cereal though?

 

[John A]

Quick question for John or anyone else in the thread who can give the answer with any authority.
What are reasonable fold to flop c bet stats for FR and 6max?

About 46-56% and on the higher side of that range for FR.

 

[John A]

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $45.43 (90.9 bb)
BB: $17.61 (35.2 bb)
Hero (UTG+2): $65.55 (131.1 bb)
MP1: $50.67 (101.3 bb)
MP2: $52.69 (105.4 bb)
MP3: $51.50 (103 bb) VPIP: 18, PFR: 12, 3B: 11, AF: 0.9, Hands: 78
CO: $68.69 (137.4 bb) VPIP: 14, PFR: 7, 3B: 3, AF: 2.6, Hands: 976
BTN: $54.09 (108.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T

T

Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, MP3 calls $1.50, CO calls $1.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($5.25) 6

6

9

(3 players)
Hero bets $2.62, MP3 calls $2.62, CO calls $2.62

Turn: ($13.11) 4

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks

River: ($13.11) 7

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $7.83, CO folds, Hero calls $7.83

Results: $28.77 pot ($1.43 rake)
Final Board: 6

6

9

4

7

Hero showed T

T

and won $27.34 ($15.39 net)
MP3 showed K

A

and lost (-$11.95 net)
CO mucked and lost (-$4.12 net)

So positionally, I'm sure you aware that you'd normally be most concerned about CO here having a 6x over MP. However, he's pretty tight. So in this scenario I'd just bet the turn. I don't mind the check, but I think it's more optimal to charge mid pairs, and 9x on a texture like this when you get 2 flop calls w/ a middling hand. River I'd lean towards bet/fold also. Same range of hands calling, some folding, but other than 66 and 99, I think most hands are betting the turn, so you're most likely ahead. Not enough missed draws to hope to bluff catch and probably not much 78 that made a pair.

 

[John A]

I'm going to be launching a new product tomorrow, so I won't be online for sweat today. But next week I will for sure.

Hopefully you guys still collaborate and please post some hands.

 

[rhombus]

I'm going to be launching a new product tomorrow, so I won't be online for sweat today. But next week I will for sure.

Hopefully you guys still collaborate and please post some hands.

Sounds interesting. GL with the Launch

PS when figaroo asked fold to flop c bet stats for FR and 6max?

You said About 46-56% and on the higher side of that range for FR.

But when I looked in Leakbuster I posted figures below. Was I looking at the incorrect figures??


6Max
Flop Fold vs Cbet 41.7 - 53.8
Flop vs Raise Fold% 43.6 - 52

Full Ring
Flop Fold vs Cbet 46.7 - 64
Flop vs Raise Fold% 37.6 - 56.7

 

[Figaroo2]

Sounds interesting. GL with the Launch
PS when figaroo asked fold to flop c bet stats for FR and 6max?
You said About 46-56% and on the higher side of that range for FR.
But when I looked in Leakbuster I posted figures below. Was I looking at the incorrect figures??

6Max
Flop Fold vs Cbet 41.7 - 53.8
Flop vs Raise Fold% 43.6 - 52

Full Ring
Flop Fold vs Cbet 46.7 - 64
Flop vs Raise Fold% 37.6 - 56.7

Yeah Rhom I came up with the same, John was in the right area.

John
Good luck with the Software launch.

I'm not going to play tonight, I'm distracted and disappointed having just got knocked back for a job I was hoping to land

 

[rhombus]

Ive been having problems with pokerstars crashing, so was advised to delete userfile.

Forgot to copy my filters for Cashgames for table selection. Think John and some of you had recommendations in this thread but unable to find them.

think it had something like Min Average Pot, Min VPIP etc

 

[John A]

Sounds interesting. GL with the Launch

PS when figaroo asked fold to flop c bet stats for FR and 6max?

You said About 46-56% and on the higher side of that range for FR.

But when I looked in Leakbuster I posted figures below. Was I looking at the incorrect figures??


6Max
Flop Fold vs Cbet 41.7 - 53.8
Flop vs Raise Fold% 43.6 - 52

Full Ring
Flop Fold vs Cbet 46.7 - 64
Flop vs Raise Fold% 37.6 - 56.7

No. That was off the top of my head. It's about right... a little higher for FR. Bur yeah, in that range I posted it's most optimal, even in leak buster.

 

[John A]

Yeah Rhom I came up with the same, John was in the right area.

John
Good luck with the Software launch.

I'm not going to play tonight, I'm distracted and disappointed having just got knocked back for a job I was hoping to land

Sorry about the job. I thought you were retiring though. So confused...

 

[Figaroo2]

turn decision, multiway, any comments on the hand generally?

It took me a while to consider the price on the turn here but I'm sure its ok we have 19 outs most of which are clean

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

SB: $11.88 (59.4 bb) VPIP: 50, PFR: 19, 3B: 0, AF: 1.4, Hands: 16 (this fish had just doubled through me, calling all an in with 2nd pair on flop and getting lucky)
BB: $35.77 (178.9 bb)
MP1: $20 (100 bb)
MP2: $20.18 (100.9 bb)
Hero (MP3): $20 (100 bb)
CO: $20 (100 bb) VPIP: 21, PFR: 12, 3B: 2, AF: 1.5, Hands: 433
BTN: $7.10 (35.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A

K

MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, CO calls $0.60, BTN folds, SB calls $0.50, BB calls $0.40, MP2 calls $0.40

Flop: ($3) Q

4

3

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50, 2 folds

Turn: ($7.50) 2

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, (multiway I don't like another barrel here, comments?)
CO bets $5.62, SB calls $5.62, Hero calls $5.62 (I was a little concerned that the CO was slow playing a set of 4s or 3s after his big bet on the turn, I considered and dismissed a CR all in)
There is over $18 in the pot and its costing me less than 3-1, so I need at least 25% equity to break even and we have probably 14 clean outs and 6 outs to the A and K that were actually good as it turned out. So we have 38% equity.
River: ($24.36) Q

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Results: $24.36 pot ($1.21 rake)
Final Board: Q

4

3

2

Q

SB showed 4

5

and won $23.15 ($15.43 net)
Hero showed A

K

and lost (-$7.72 net)
CO showed J

T

and lost (-$7.72 net)
hmm if the flush had come I'm stacking the CO, unlucky me.

 

[Figaroo2]

River bluffing spot?

Pacific, $0.15/$0.30 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $41 (136.7 bb)
BB: $30 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $31.35 (104.5 bb)
MP1: $48.44 (161.5 bb)
MP2: $53.97 (179.9 bb)
MP3: $14.52 (48.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $30.81 (102.7 bb)
BTN: $43.53 (145.1 bb) VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 3, AF: 3.2, Hands: 843

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

Q

4 folds, Hero raises to $0.90, BTN calls $0.90, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.25) 7

3

9

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.42, Hero calls $1.42

Turn: ($5.09) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.81, BTN calls $3.81

River: ($12.71) 8

(2 players)
Peeking at villains wtsd% it is only 20%
Hero? checks, BTN bets $4
Hero?

 

[John A]

It took me a while to consider the price on the turn here but I'm sure its ok we have 19 outs most of which are clean

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

SB: $11.88 (59.4 bb) VPIP: 50, PFR: 19, 3B: 0, AF: 1.4, Hands: 16 (this fish had just doubled through me, calling all an in with 2nd pair on flop and getting lucky)
BB: $35.77 (178.9 bb)
MP1: $20 (100 bb)
MP2: $20.18 (100.9 bb)
Hero (MP3): $20 (100 bb)
CO: $20 (100 bb) VPIP: 21, PFR: 12, 3B: 2, AF: 1.5, Hands: 433
BTN: $7.10 (35.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A

K

MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, CO calls $0.60, BTN folds, SB calls $0.50, BB calls $0.40, MP2 calls $0.40

Flop: ($3) Q

4

3

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50, 2 folds

I like a turn bet to control the pot and push out some midpairs. We're mostly concerned w/ CO here. I don't mind a turn check/call either, but EV here is probably slightly better if you bet say 4.6$ on the turn and controlled the pot but pushed out a lot of mid pairs that are calling the flop, especially from CO.

 

[John A]

Pacific, $0.15/$0.30 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $41 (136.7 bb)
BB: $30 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $31.35 (104.5 bb)
MP1: $48.44 (161.5 bb)
MP2: $53.97 (179.9 bb)
MP3: $14.52 (48.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $30.81 (102.7 bb)
BTN: $43.53 (145.1 bb) VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 3, AF: 3.2, Hands: 843

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

Q

4 folds, Hero raises to $0.90, BTN calls $0.90, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.25) 7

3

9

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.42, Hero calls $1.42

Turn: ($5.09) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.81, BTN calls $3.81

River: ($12.71) 8

(2 players)
Peeking at villains wtsd% it is only 20%
Hero? checks, BTN bets $4
Hero?

I wouldn't typically c/c on this kind of flop against this kind of opponent. I'd lean more towards just VB. You can at least also push out their really small pairs a % of the time also. A normal reg, I like c/cing here better since their range will be wider and they will bet wider also.

As played, I like the turn lead, and yes, bluff river. About $10 would be my range.