Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[skrsh76]

Bet more on the flop, bet more on the turn, shove the river. You lost a lot of value in this hand by under betting everywhere. Why were you betting so small against someone who is playing too many hands and will flop second best hands a ton?

In the hindsight I should have bet more but my thinking was he would not call with a K on the board and once an A hits the river I didn't want to suddenly increase the betting ratio. But he turned over T7 Clubs for a straight

 

[Figaroo2]

What is going on here?

poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.87 (108.7 bb)
UTG+2: $9.67 (96.7 bb) 23/11/30 in 67 hands, went to SD 40%. 8 limps preflop
MP1: $10.89 (108.9 bb)
MP2: $3.25 (32.5 bb)
MP3: $10.83 (108.3 bb)
CO: $10.32 (103.2 bb) fish
BTN: $3.70 (37 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:club: Q:spade:
UTG+2 calls $0.10, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.20, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.90, BB folds, UTG+2 calls $0.80, MP2 folds, CO calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.90) 4:club: 3:spade: 2:club: (3 players)
Hero bets $1.38, UTG+2 raises to $8.77 and is all-in,
So what limps from EP calls x9 and then shoves on that flop?
I tanked for ages here but couldn't see it.....confused me enough to fold.
2 folds

 

[John A]

Sorry the figures I gave weren't entirely accurate. He could actually have had 28 leaks and scored B+, all i remember is he had a lower grade with fewer leaks. i noticed with the + - that if you click + the coloured area in the graph for each leak moves to the right and if you click - it moves to the left. Does this represent some sort of margin of error based on your sample size? As for the blue, red, green dots which display bb/100 if you hover your cursor over, at first i thought this was average winrates for this range, but then those winrates seem very low, usually up to 2bb/100. what is the real meaning of these dots?

Yeah, that makes more sense. And forgot to answer your other question. The + and - is to zoom or expand out the bb/100 chart. The chart itself is showing average winrates between those ranges. This way you can get an idea of how far winrates drop off if you go far below or above the recommended ranges. This also factors into the scoring itself. If you're more curious on how this works, the manual is actually pretty good and explains all of this as well. It breaks all the parts of the program down in detail.

 

[John A]

In the hindsight I should have bet more but my thinking was he would not call with a K on the board and once an A hits the river I didn't want to suddenly increase the betting ratio. But he turned over T7 Clubs for a straight

I think the big take away from a hand like this is you need to really really understand that people aren't thinking about the game the same way you are. A huge part of really taking your game to the next level is profiling a player, and then understanding how those kinds of players typically think about situations. A person like this is thinking.. "all I need is one more card for a straight". They aren't thinking about how to bluff if they miss, what they are repping, or the fact the odds suck for them to chase. So just make sure you keep that in mind because we can sometimes get in the habit of projecting our understanding of the game onto others, and that's almost never going to work.

 

[John A]

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.87 (108.7 bb)
UTG+2: $9.67 (96.7 bb) 23/11/30 in 67 hands, went to SD 40%. 8 limps preflop
MP1: $10.89 (108.9 bb)
MP2: $3.25 (32.5 bb)
MP3: $10.83 (108.3 bb)
CO: $10.32 (103.2 bb) fish
BTN: $3.70 (37 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q♣ Q♠
UTG+2 calls $0.10, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.20, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.90, BB folds, UTG+2 calls $0.80, MP2 folds, CO calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.90) 4♣ 3♠ 2♣ (3 players)
Hero bets $1.38, UTG+2 raises to $8.77 and is all-in,
So what limps from EP calls x9 and then shoves on that flop?
I tanked for ages here but couldn't see it.....confused me enough to fold.
2 folds

Well... let's do the work and think of a range. You have sets of course. 55, maybe 66, and then draws and combo draws as well as A5. Where's your equity versus that range? I'd probably add in one other mid pair like 77 or 88 just because this can happen a decent % of the time with limp callers.

 

[Figaroo2]

Well... let's do the work and think of a range. You have sets of course. 55, maybe 66, and then draws and combo draws as well as A5. Where's your equity versus that range? I'd probably add in one other mid pair like 77 or 88 just because this can happen a decent % of the time with limp callers.

Ok so we give him the attached range without any other sort of combos and we are a slight favourite, so I suppose we should be stacking off.
But I still don't see how he puts it all in here unless he has a set. I mean he's facing a big raise from the SB, he should be putting me on cards like I actually do have QQ KK AA and yet he is happy to gii with 77 88 66 55?,,,,and his stats are not overly loose.
Yet if he limp calls x9 with 22 33 44 that is garbage right. This is what I couldn't work out at the table and its still confusing me
I wish i'd called now just for the info.

 

[Figaroo2]

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...er-vol-i-study-group-227214/post-2580158.html

I'm not a big fan of river CR's but this is about as ideal as you get. The turn brought some draws, you're facing a LAG who will bluff, the river bricked, your perceived range isn't super strong , and you filled up. I'd be check shoving and hope he either hero calls or spiked a turn set. He most likely has 87/67 or a flush draw though.

Villian had KK in this hand and stacked me.

 

[Figaroo2]

Good bluffing spot, how much should we make it on the end.?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

SB: $7.62 (76.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $17.67 (176.7 bb)
MP: $17.35 (173.5 bb) 39/29/47 in 122 laggy but only 9% from ep. Plays mostly from BTN or CO
CO: $11.97 (119.7 bb)
BTN: $9.53 (95.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9:club: 9:spade:
MP raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.20 gave him a bit of credit for a hand here

Flop: ($0.65) 8:club: 4:heart: 8:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30 (raise? thought about it but not really wanting to bloat it)

Turn: ($1.25) T:spade: (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60 (raise?)

River: ($2.45) J:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $1, Hero raises to?

I want to look like I've made the flush and want to get paid.
I did raise and got looked up, could we have got him off the hand?

Final Board: 8:club: 4:heart: 8:heart: T:spade: J:heart:
Hero showed 9:club: 9:spade: and lost (-$4.10 net)
MP showed 9:diamond: 8:diamond: and won $7.88 ($3.78 net) git

 

[mottotom27]

villain looks more fishy than laggy imo. 39% VPIP is high even for 6max. for that reason i probably wouldn't try to run a bluff there. flop is a spot where i don't know whether calling or raising is best since our hand is vulnerable to overcards, yet we don't really wanna bloat the pot as you say. hopefully john can elaborate on how he'd play this.

 

[John A]

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...er-vol-i-study-group-227214/post-2580158.html



Villian had KK in this hand and stacked me.

Yeah, boat over boat sucks... except when you have the high boat.

 

[John A]

Good bluffing spot, how much should we make it on the end.?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

SB: $7.62 (76.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $17.67 (176.7 bb)
MP: $17.35 (173.5 bb) 39/29/47 in 122 laggy but only 9% from ep. Plays mostly from BTN or CO
CO: $11.97 (119.7 bb)
BTN: $9.53 (95.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9♣ 9♠
MP raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.20 gave him a bit of credit for a hand here

Flop: ($0.65) 8♣ 4♥ 8♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30 (raise? thought about it but not really wanting to bloat it)

Turn: ($1.25) T♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60 (raise?)

River: ($2.45) J♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $1, Hero raises to?

I want to look like I've made the flush and want to get paid.
I did raise and got looked up, could we have got him off the hand?

Final Board: 8♣ 4♥ 8♥ T♠ J♥
Hero showed 9♣ 9♠ and lost (-$4.10 net)
MP showed 9♦ 8♦ and won $7.88 ($3.78 net) git

You only have 122 hands on him though so I'd throw the EP, which really you need MP stat, out the window. I'm 3-betting pre-flop. As played I'd lead the flop. No lead, then I'd call. If he re-raises, are you calling? I'd lead the turn. As played, I guess you're letting him set the price. River, I'd probably c/f. It looks like a pure VB. What is he bluffing or betting that's worse here? I don't think it's a horrible call because the price you're getting, but I'd probably fold. The whole hand was played way too passive.

 

[Figaroo2]

You only have 122 hands on him though so I'd throw the EP, which really you need MP stat, out the window. I'm 3-betting pre-flop. As played I'd lead the flop. No lead, then I'd call. If he re-raises, are you calling? I'd lead the turn. As played, I guess you're letting him set the price. River, I'd probably c/f. It looks like a pure VB. What is he bluffing or betting that's worse here? I don't think it's a horrible call because the price you're getting, but I'd probably fold. The whole hand was played way too passive.

I agree its all too passive but as per my review thats what I struggle with, I also am not good with the middle pairs 88 to JJ in these sort of spots. Next time I will be raising the flop or turn here, against a normal range with plenty of AK AQ AJ I think I'd be good here often enough. Its too difficult to put him on an 8 here for trips,
I still don't like the idea of 3 betting 99 oop here against the early opener, what do we do with 99 if we get 4 bet? It seems like a hand that is too strong to fold, jamming doesn't feel right although its probably +EV in the long run. I'd rather just play a normal sized pot than a 4 bet pot with overs on the flop.
As to what he's bluffing with? AK AQ 66 77
I actually thought he might have AJ AT KJ or similar here and thought a good raise on the river might get a fold with the flush scare appearing. As it was I raised on the river and he tanked for about a minute before calling with his trips. He was clearly concerned I might have a flush the way I'd just called throughout the hand. Guess I was unlucky to run into flopped trips, when they make a strong hand on the flop at these stakes they just don't fold very much.

 

[Figaroo2]

tricky spot against decent reg

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players.

SB: $20.40 (102 bb) 16/14/42 in 448 5.3% 3bet from SB HM2 eagle
BB: $29.56 (147.8 bb)
UTG+2: $22.79 (114 bb)
MP1: $11.35 (56.7 bb)
MP2: $31.54 (157.7 bb)
MP3: $21.55 (107.8 bb)
CO: $20.30 (101.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $41.14 (205.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A:heart: K:diamond:
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, SB raises to $2, BB folds, Hero calls $1.40

Flop: ($4.20) 9:club: 6:diamond: J:diamond: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($4.20) 4:diamond: (2 players) I pick up a K flush draw
SB checks, Hero bets $2.10, SB raises to $7.80,
pot $14.10
Hero??

$5.70 to call
2.47-1 odds, against a 5.3% 3bet range I still have nearly 43% equity here
The check raise narrows his hand to what 99 JJ QQ KK AA AdQd AdKx
against his range I have about 31% equity.
In game it looks flaky if he has the Ace diamonds I'm toast.
In game i'm inclined to call and fight my corner, i don't want regs like this walking over me too easy and I have position on the end.

thoughts?
Perhaps just 4 bet pre and call it off against a 5bet shove? he has previously 5 bet shoved on me twice out of four and I folded both.

 

[fishinthesea]

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players.

SB: $20.40 (102 bb) 16/14/42 in 448 5.3% 3bet from SB HM2 eagle
BB: $29.56 (147.8 bb)
UTG+2: $22.79 (114 bb)
MP1: $11.35 (56.7 bb)
MP2: $31.54 (157.7 bb)
MP3: $21.55 (107.8 bb)
CO: $20.30 (101.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $41.14 (205.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A♥ K♦
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, SB raises to $2, BB folds, Hero calls $1.40

Flop: ($4.20) 9♣ 6♦ J♦ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($4.20) 4♦ (2 players) I pick up a K flush draw
SB checks, Hero bets $2.10, SB raises to $7.80,
pot $14.10
Hero??

$5.70 to call
2.47-1 odds, against a 5.3% 3bet range I still have nearly 43% equity here
The check raise narrows his hand to what 99 JJ QQ KK AA AdQd AdKx
against his range I have about 31% equity.
In game it looks flaky if he has the Ace diamonds I'm toast.
In game i'm inclined to call and fight my corner, i don't want regs like this walking over me too easy and I have position on the end.

thoughts?
Perhaps just 4 bet pre and call it off against a 5bet shove? he has previously 5 bet shoved on me twice out of four and I folded both.

I've ran into this situation so many times(turning an A or K high flush draw with AK), and I've always checked the turn when i get checked back too. Mostly against fish though. I hate losing all my equity if I get check raised off a hand that I could possibly win. I don't know if I can call that check raise. Maybe if I'm feeling lucky....

 

[Figaroo2]

Squeezing a squeezer

What about this spot? The guy squeezing from the blinds does it regularly, as I was in EP showing 12/8/30 on my own hud I figured a raise should get some respect, its simply a case of sizing, I didn't want to shove but wanted to make it big enough to get the job done, problem is can i fold if he shoves? Its half my stack.
Loving his screen name.

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $24.15 (120.7 bb)
BB: $32.56 (162.8 bb) marked as a slag reg 20/18/42 in 159, squeeze from blinds 25%
UTG+2: $9.25 (46.3 bb)
Hero (MP1): $20 (100 bb)
MP2: $14.77 (73.9 bb)
MP3: $20 (100 bb)
CO: $35.55 (177.7 bb)
BTN: $22.63 (113.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8♠ 8♦
UTG+2 calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, MP2 calls $0.60, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.60, 2 folds, BB raises to $3.70, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $10.40, 3 folds

Results: $8.90 pot
Hero mucked 8♠ 8♦ and won $8.90 ($5.20 net)

 

[Figaroo2]

Stinky river bet, good pick off?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players

Hero (SB): $29.88 (119.5 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
MP1: $35.78 (143.1 bb)
MP2: $27.84 (111.4 bb)
MP3: $28.91 (115.6 bb)
CO: $25.40 (101.6 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T♣ T♠
MP1 raises to $0.75, 2 folds, CO calls $0.75, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.65, BB calls $0.50
I didn't want to 3 bet here, both good regs unlikely to be out of line and end up playing 10s oop.

Flop: ($3) 2♥ 5♦ 7♥ (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO bets $1.50, Hero raises to $3.50, BB calls $3.50, MP1 folds, CO calls $2

Turn: ($13.50) 4♣ (3 players)
I was a bit thrown by the BB coming along, wasn't sure whether to bet here now. Probably should with hindsight to get more value from heart draws.
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks

River: ($13.50) 9♦ (3 players)
I'd a mind to see if anyone wants to bluff at this as the hearts missed, I can't see worse calling a river bet.
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $9.25, Hero calls $9.25, BB folds

Results: $32 pot ($1.44 rake)
Final Board: 2♥ 5♦ 7♥ 4♣ 9♦
Hero showed T♣ T♠ and won $30.56 ($17.06 net)
BB mucked and lost (-$4.25 net)
CO showed 6♦ 6♠ and lost (-$13.50 net)

 

[John A]

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players.

SB: $20.40 (102 bb) 16/14/42 in 448 5.3% 3bet from SB HM2 eagle
BB: $29.56 (147.8 bb)
UTG+2: $22.79 (114 bb)
MP1: $11.35 (56.7 bb)
MP2: $31.54 (157.7 bb)
MP3: $21.55 (107.8 bb)
CO: $20.30 (101.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $41.14 (205.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A♥ K♦
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, SB raises to $2, BB folds, Hero calls $1.40

Flop: ($4.20) 9♣ 6♦ J♦ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($4.20) 4♦ (2 players) I pick up a K flush draw
SB checks, Hero bets $2.10, SB raises to $7.80,
pot $14.10
Hero??

$5.70 to call
2.47-1 odds, against a 5.3% 3bet range I still have nearly 43% equity here
The check raise narrows his hand to what 99 JJ QQ KK AA AdQd AdKx
against his range I have about 31% equity.
In game it looks flaky if he has the Ace diamonds I'm toast.
In game i'm inclined to call and fight my corner, i don't want regs like this walking over me too easy and I have position on the end.

thoughts?
Perhaps just 4 bet pre and call it off against a 5bet shove? he has previously 5 bet shoved on me twice out of four and I folded both.

If he checks that flop, I'd just bet. Getting him to fold out AK would be great. He might call AK/AQ which would also be good. As played, I'm not sure what you want to rep on the turn. I know he checked twice, and it doesn't make sense for him to have anything there now, but I'd usually just take the free card unless I'm against a really bad reg. This guy looks tight, so he's probably going to have have some hands like TT and even AJ that he might not be betting. As played, I'd fold. I think you have a little less than 30% and implied odds are really low against someone like this.

 

[mottotom27]

BTN: $14.46 (144.6 bb)
SB: $5.10 (51 bb)
BB: $8.60 (86 bb)
UTG+1: $23.13 (231.3 bb)
UTG+2: $9.68 (96.8 bb)
MP1: $35.77 (357.7 bb)
MP2: $9.79 (97.9 bb)
MP3: $31.54 (315.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $10.30 (103 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K:club: A:spade:
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB calls $0.25, BB raises to $1.20, Hero raises to $2.70, SB folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($5.70) 8:spade: 5:club: Q:spade: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB raises to $5.90, Hero ?

villain unknown. i'm getting 4:1 on a call here but my actually odds of winning may only be 5:1 if he always shows up with AA-JJ here, as leakbuster's equity calculator suggests. so i'm guessing fold? and should i even have bothered with a cbet (or sized it even smaller)?

regarding leakbuster, i'm having difficulties finding actual hands and being able to post them on here using the software. instead i'm having to post them directly from PT4.

 

[Figaroo2]

He has a fishy looking stack size and has raised you twice so let it go.
You sort of feel duty bound to cbet so Cbet give up would be my line. Like you said you could actually just check the flop he has a lot of KK QQ here having called a 4 bet oop.

 

[John A]

BTN: $14.46 (144.6 bb)
SB: $5.10 (51 bb)
BB: $8.60 (86 bb)
UTG+1: $23.13 (231.3 bb)
UTG+2: $9.68 (96.8 bb)
MP1: $35.77 (357.7 bb)
MP2: $9.79 (97.9 bb)
MP3: $31.54 (315.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $10.30 (103 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K♣ A♠
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB calls $0.25, BB raises to $1.20, Hero raises to $2.70, SB folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($5.70) 8♠ 5♣ Q♠ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB raises to $5.90, Hero ?

villain unknown. i'm getting 4:1 on a call here but my actually odds of winning may only be 5:1 if he always shows up with AA-JJ here, as leakbuster's equity calculator suggests. so i'm guessing fold? and should i even have bothered with a cbet (or sized it even smaller)?

regarding leakbuster, i'm having difficulties finding actual hands and being able to post them on here using the software. instead i'm having to post them directly from PT4.

Stats? Fishy stack size. I'd probably lean towards calling the 3-bet though since you have position and because of his stack size. The only 4-bet I'm making is a pot committing one, and I don't like to gamble with fish. As played, the only thing you're pushing out is AK... and probably a fish is jamming AK OOP with that stack size correct? So, yeah I'd have checked the flop. But maybe there's something you saw about his game you didn't share?

 

[mottotom27]

Stats? Fishy stack size. I'd probably lean towards calling the 3-bet though since you have position and because of his stack size. The only 4-bet I'm making is a pot committing one, and I don't like to gamble with fish. As played, the only thing you're pushing out is AK... and probably a fish is jamming AK OOP with that stack size correct? So, yeah I'd have checked the flop. But maybe there's something you saw about his game you didn't share?

could you explain to me why you'd flat here and why stack size is relevant? like it feels like when i flat i usually end up having to fold the flop if an A or K doesn't come. also aren't we worried the SB will come along if we just flat, or do we not mind being multiway with AK here?

villain completely unknown unfortunately. although i assumed he's fishy given the stack size he flat called a 4bet OOP. what sort of range do you put a villain on typically for flatting 4bets?

 

[Figaroo2]

Welcome to 50NL

Table hunted managed to get the Jesus seat on an agg fish playing every hand.
End of first orbit. My Holdem Manager 2 does display 50nl hands.
So boomed it. Got lucky on the turn I suppose but did have the gutshot and overs
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/13426447_11BE73FC53

 

[mottotom27]

was surprised you cbet that board tbh

 

[John A]

could you explain to me why you'd flat here and why stack size is relevant? like it feels like when i flat i usually end up having to fold the flop if an A or K doesn't come. also aren't we worried the SB will come along if we just flat, or do we not mind being multiway with AK here?

villain completely unknown unfortunately. although i assumed he's fishy given the stack size he flat called a 4bet OOP. what sort of range do you put a villain on typically for flatting 4bets?

Because you have a little more FE to shove the flop to get splits to fold out OR you can float and shove turns more effectively if you're just calling the 3-bet. If you 4-bet, you have a really awkward stack sizing left. In position, calling AK is fine sometimes. You can call a bet on some boards and still be ahead of your opponents range. So there are options. Not too worried about the SB, he's usually folding and if he does call, you still have position on 2 guys and you can control the pot better.

 

[mottotom27]

Thanks John, I'll have to start floating on boards that miss my opponents range like 963. Say i do float on 963, turn is a 2 brick and villain checks. Would you then generally bet to try and take the pot down or check and try to get to showdown cheaply?