How to make the jump from top 20

[tiltqueen]

Hello

My husband and I recently started playing online tournament poker together. We are not professionals by any means but we enjoy it as a hobby together. My question is we cash about 20-30% percent of the times and when we do we typically make it to about the final 7-10% of players (typically the final couple tables). However we seem to always run our luck out there and haven’t been able to crack a final table.. any tips on game change or play to help move past this point? What are we doing wrong?

 

[narc]

My biggest challenge is maintaining my bankroll.

I always want to move up quickly; it's rarely happened, but it was very good.

Consistency and study are what make you overcome challenges. I'm coming back now, and I hope to have more awareness of what to do in these games and how to manage my bankroll.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

It could be that you are playing more cautiously to get a min cash, rather than playing to get into a position to win (or reach the final table). More advanced is to get introduced to the concept of ICM pressure.

 

[TeUnit]

It could be that you are playing more cautiously to get a min cash, rather than playing to get into a position to win (or reach the final table). More advanced is to get introduced to the concept of ICM pressure.

This, You probably are not playing aggressive enough. Near the bubble you want to be accumulating as many chips as possible. ICM will tell you when its time to be aggressive.

You can just dump your hand histories into a ICM tools like sngwiz or icmizer. Both have trainers where you can practice.

 

[Huntre]

Hello

My husband and I recently started playing online tournament poker together. We are not professionals by any means but we enjoy it as a hobby together. My question is we cash about 20-30% percent of the times and when we do we typically make it to about the final 7-10% of players (typically the final couple tables). However we seem to always run our luck out there and haven’t been able to crack a final table.. any tips on game change or play to help move past this point? What are we doing wrong?

Maybe it's a lack of patience and an overvaluing of the tournament stage?

 

[tiltqueen]

This, You probably are not playing aggressive enough. Near the bubble you want to be accumulating as many chips as possible. ICM will tell you when its time to be aggressive.

You can just dump your hand histories into a ICM tools like sngwiz or icmizer. Both have trainers where you can practice.

So does ICM work in live poker too? I’ve read a little bit on it. I don’t have problems in live poker but it seems like the the IcM take over from the RNG card generator a certain points in the tournament? It actually kind of explains a lot and the difference between online and live… we found around the bubble we would be getting monster hands, playing aggressive and getting beat out by very suspect hands. So we really started focusing on cards and position at this point and getting into the pays… then we kinda run into the same thing at this stage but still seem to get sucked in… (while regularly seeing horrible value hands being our “winning hands”…. We’ve actually tried tilting those ways too see if that would get us over the hump but yeah it’s been tough

 

[christovam]

There’s probably a lack of aggression in the plays, but that’s understandable, since anxiety takes over as we try to make it to the final table. I think that’s normal.

 

[John A]

So does ICM work in live poker too? I’ve read a little bit on it. I don’t have problems in live poker but it seems like the the IcM take over from the RNG card generator a certain points in the tournament? It actually kind of explains a lot and the difference between online and live… we found around the bubble we would be getting monster hands, playing aggressive and getting beat out by very suspect hands. So we really started focusing on cards and position at this point and getting into the pays… then we kinda run into the same thing at this stage but still seem to get sucked in… (while regularly seeing horrible value hands being our “winning hands”…. We’ve actually tried tilting those ways too see if that would get us over the hump but yeah it’s been tough

Yes, ICM is just a calculation. You won't be able to do it exactly live, but if you practice ICM bubble spots offline (using Apps), you'll be able to understand which ranges of hands to get more aggressive with pre-flop depending on the effective stack sizes in front of you and remaining spots to the bubble.

 

[hardongear]

Phoenix Wright above is likely right when he says you're playing too cautiously so you can min cash. Sometimes you gotta play poker like you hate money in order to be a long term winning player. Another part of it is maybe a lack of volume as well you gotta play a lot of volume to be able to beat variance when it comes to MTT's. Most rec/hobby players when it comes to MTT's can never play enough volume to be able to beat variance specially if one prefers longer 10+ min blind level MTT's like I do. This is why I also play cash during the week and save my MTT playing for weekends. Playing cash during the week allows me to make my weekend scheduled MTT's buy-ins+a bit of extra profit even if I don't cash in any MTT's for the week. At least it does most weeks....that helps smooth out the MTT's variance a lot.

Cheers!!!

 

[eetenor]

Hello

My husband and I recently started playing online tournament poker together. We are not professionals by any means but we enjoy it as a hobby together. My question is we cash about 20-30% percent of the times and when we do we typically make it to about the final 7-10% of players (typically the final couple tables). However we seem to always run our luck out there and haven’t been able to crack a final table.. any tips on game change or play to help move past this point? What are we doing wrong?

Wtg you guys are running hot and doing well for new players.

There is no way for anyone to tell you what you are doing wrong without knowing what you are actually doing wrong! "Poker can be learned quickly but mastered only in a lifetime"

You want to post your bust out hands so we can see what choices you are making-

Poker has variance -so far, the variance may have helped you get that deep that often-
what that means is you may be making mistakes and winning hands early and then making the same mistake and losing late. Typically, early in an MTT we can pick up pots from weak players who make big mistakes but by the time we get to 2 tables those players are gone and you may be playing vs better players who do not give away chips--so your ranges are now incorrect vs that player type.

Have you studied ranges? Have you studied stack size based range changes? Are you taking notes on your Villains when you get to 2 tables to adjust ranges for better players? Have you studied bet sizing adjustments for smaller stacks?

GTO WIZARD has a free version you can study all the above preflop and 1 hand a day post flop it is a great tool.

I have a thread about GTO WIZARD ask a question in it and I can answer

 

[Phoenix Wright]

Phoenix Wright above is likely right when he says you're playing too cautiously so you can min cash. Sometimes you gotta play poker like you hate money in order to be a long term winning player. Another part of it is maybe a lack of volume as well you gotta play a lot of volume to be able to beat variance when it comes to MTT's. Most rec/hobby players when it comes to MTT's can never play enough volume to be able to beat variance specially if one prefers longer 10+ min blind level MTT's like I do. This is why I also play cash during the week and save my MTT playing for weekends. Playing cash during the week allows me to make my weekend scheduled MTT's buy-ins+a bit of extra profit even if I don't cash in any MTT's for the week. At least it does most weeks....that helps smooth out the MTT's variance a lot.

Cheers!!!

"...play poker like you hate money..." lol

 

[hardongear]

"...play poker like you hate money..." lol

I know it sounds funny when the idea/reason for playing poker is to make money. Not sure what poker pro said that in his book but it comes from one of the old poker books I have around here. And it kinda is true if you're a player that plays super/more aggressive when near the bubble and pay jumps so you can accomulate a big stack of chips to run deep. Almost every time I've run deep, won or made the final table it was because I "played poker like I hated money" when near the bubble and pay jumps.

Cheers!!!

 

[Matt_Burns88]

What types of games are you playing? Cashing 20-30% of the time is very high for MTT's. As others have said, it is likely you are overvaluing getting into the money and playing too tight in order to squeeze into the cash. This then leaves you with a short stack, giving you a much harder task of reaching the business end of the tournament.

 

[dreamer13]

Trust your intuition, listen to your feelings - often the subconscious notices opportunities faster than logic.Believing that good luck will come causes the brain to notice opportunities that would otherwise be missed.