What is a good VPIP?

[Goalie35]

I try to play a reasonable opening range using the online charts which show 15 to 22% depending on position. Several of the "pros" state that if your VPIP is less than 18% you are a Nit. My VPIP has been between 10 and 12% for the last 6 months. I would love to play more hands but I am not playing 9, 3o just to get my VPIP higher. What is a reasonable VPIP rate?

 

[Joe]

I try to play a reasonable opening range using the online charts which show 15 to 22% depending on position. Several of the "pros" state that if your VPIP is less than 18% you are a Nit. My VPIP has been between 10 and 12% for the last 6 months. I would love to play more hands but I am not playing 9, 3o just to get my VPIP higher. What is a reasonable VPIP rate?

Great question Goalie35, thanks for posting it!

Unfortunately, as with many things (if not everything) in poker what might seem straightforward becomes more complicated the closer you look and although can sometimes be reduced or simplified into generalised concepts, ratios or rules there is never a cookie cutter approach or formula for the perfect and best way to play that is applicable in all scenarios, besides GTO which isn't something that can be memorised or calculated by a human brain.

So, that was a very verbose way of saying 'it depends'... My apologies for not cutting to the chase sooner. 😅

Different approaches or strategies will have vastly different VPIP's and there are of course countless other factors which might affect how frequently players will be volunteering chips into the pot.

Myself personally, I used to play a fairly nitty strategy, which led to more of a TAG style (which I stuck to for quite some time with relative success) whereas these days I'd probably describe my own play as LAG more often than not.

My opinion (at this point in time*) is that a nitty strategy is rarely ideal, on specific occasions, such as a huge bubble in tournament when short stacked, or at a FT when there are big ladder jumps and ICM considerations leading to folding hands in spots we'd usually snap.

Rather than have one specific game plan and hoping that it works in all situations, much better is to tailor your approach based on the situation you find yourself in.

One of Phil Ivey's famous quotes is (essentially) 'do the opposite of what the rest of the table is doing', which I believe refers to the idea of if the whole table is playing tight, you should play agressively. Whereas if the table is maniac city, you should play snug.

If you're playing fluidly in that way it'll result in different VPIP's at different times but overall...?

Hmmm... I'm not sure and would like to know!

Wonder what Ivey's total VPIP looks like...

We digress..!

I'd say if you're not too comfortable widening up your range in more positions yet then perhaps aim for that 18% but playing from positon with the majority.

I should have asked this first, but what kind of games and stakes are you playing?

*Ask me again in the morning!

 

[Goalie35]

Great question Goalie35, thanks for posting it!

Unfortunately, as with many things (if not everything) in poker what might seem straightforward becomes more complicated the closer you look and although can sometimes be reduced or simplified into generalised concepts, ratios or rules there is never a cookie cutter approach or formula for the perfect and best way to play that is applicable in all scenarios, besides GTO which isn't something that can be memorised or calculated by a human brain.

So, that was a very verbose way of saying 'it depends'... My apologies for not cutting to the chase sooner. 😅

Different approaches or strategies will have vastly different VPIP's and there are of course countless other factors which might affect how frequently players will be volunteering chips into the pot.

Myself personally, I used to play a fairly nitty strategy, which led to more of a TAG style (which I stuck to for quite some time with relative success) whereas these days I'd probably describe my own play as LAG more often than not.

My opinion (at this point in time*) is that a nitty strategy is rarely ideal, on specific occasions, such as a huge bubble in tournament when short stacked, or at a FT when there are big ladder jumps and ICM considerations leading to folding hands in spots we'd usually snap.

Rather than have one specific game plan and hoping that it works in all situations, much better is to tailor your approach based on the situation you find yourself in.

One of Phil Ivey's famous quotes is (essentially) 'do the opposite of what the rest of the table is doing', which I believe refers to the idea of if the whole table is playing tight, you should play agressively. Whereas if the table is maniac city, you should play snug.

If you're playing fluidly in that way it'll result in different VPIP's at different times but overall...?

Hmmm... I'm not sure and would like to know!

Wonder what Ivey's total VPIP looks like...

We digress..!

I'd say if you're not too comfortable widening up your range in more positions yet then perhaps aim for that 18% but playing from positon with the majority.

I should have asked this first, but what kind of games and stakes are you playing?

*Ask me again in the morning!

Thanks for the reply. I typically play 5/10 NL online and 50/1 home games with friends. Is my question strange? You are the only person that has replied.

 

[fundiver199]

Well you kind of gave the answer yourself already. Even for full ring anything lower than 18% means, you are playing tight and giving up on potentially profitable spots. To get your VPIP up, start by trying to widen your range from CO and BTN, both when it folds to you, and when there is previous action. And perhaps also defend your big blind a bit wider. The most common reason for a low VPIP is not being positionally aware. While a hand like KTo is not good enough to open UTG, it is certainly good enough to open from CO or BTN.

 

[LUKADONCICMVP]

a good vpip depends on the players u play obv, there is no correct answer

 

[tagece]

I think there is not such thing like an ideal VPIP. The problem is to be a tight and passive player If you are a a tight player you must be more aggressive post flop. There area lot of lose players that play very bad after flop, anyways.

 

[Joe]

Thanks for the reply. I typically play 5/10 NL online and 50/1 home games with friends. Is my question strange? You are the only person that has replied.

Not at all, you're very welcome!

To be honest I'm not great with cash game strategy (being more of an MTT and SNG player myself), but no, I don't think your question is strange.

Some threads, topics or questions will generate a lot of feedback, some will receive little or none- don't let it put you off!

I could easily have as many (or more) threads that have received no replies whatsoever and slipped quietly off into the warm, fuzzy, feathery recesses of CardsChat's ether as those which have initiated discussion (or garned even a response).

To be fair, I have posted some fairly out-there threads and totally understand the feeling of not knowing what to say sometimes!

 

[nameless]

A low VPIP (<14%) indicates a very tight player, an average VPIP (between 15% and 25%) will indicate a typical tight-aggressive player, while a high VPIP (50%+) means that no dust will collect on that stack, whatever the situation

 

[Goalie35]

Thanks for the comments. I do play tight but I have also been card dead for months. I will try opening my range on th BTN and CO.

 

[ADRI7HO]

Great question Goalie35, thanks for posting it!

Unfortunately, as with many things (if not everything) in poker what might seem straightforward becomes more complicated the closer you look and although can sometimes be reduced or simplified into generalised concepts, ratios or rules there is never a cookie cutter approach or formula for the perfect and best way to play that is applicable in all scenarios, besides GTO which isn't something that can be memorised or calculated by a human brain.

So, that was a very verbose way of saying 'it depends'... My apologies for not cutting to the chase sooner. 😅

Different approaches or strategies will have vastly different VPIP's and there are of course countless other factors which might affect how frequently players will be volunteering chips into the pot.

Myself personally, I used to play a fairly nitty strategy, which led to more of a TAG style (which I stuck to for quite some time with relative success) whereas these days I'd probably describe my own play as LAG more often than not.

My opinion (at this point in time*) is that a nitty strategy is rarely ideal, on specific occasions, such as a huge bubble in tournament when short stacked, or at a FT when there are big ladder jumps and ICM considerations leading to folding hands in spots we'd usually snap.

Rather than have one specific game plan and hoping that it works in all situations, much better is to tailor your approach based on the situation you find yourself in.

One of Phil Ivey's famous quotes is (essentially) 'do the opposite of what the rest of the table is doing', which I believe refers to the idea of if the whole table is playing tight, you should play agressively. Whereas if the table is maniac city, you should play snug.

If you're playing fluidly in that way it'll result in different VPIP's at different times but overall...?

Hmmm... I'm not sure and would like to know!

Wonder what Ivey's total VPIP looks like...

We digress..!

I'd say if you're not too comfortable widening up your range in more positions yet then perhaps aim for that 18% but playing from positon with the majority.

I should have asked this first, but what kind of games and stakes are you playing?

*Ask me again in the morning!

Well you kind of gave the answer yourself already. Even for full ring anything lower than 18% means, you are playing tight and giving up on potentially profitable spots. To get your VPIP up, start by trying to widen your range from CO and BTN, both when it folds to you, and when there is previous action. And perhaps also defend your big blind a bit wider. The most common reason for a low VPIP is not being positionally aware. While a hand like KTo is not good enough to open UTG, it is certainly good enough to open from CO or BTN.

a good vpip depends on the players u play obv, there is no correct answer

Thanks, that was a detailed explanation of the concept of VPIP. I only meet him on GGPoker, but I use what I read here.

 

[Joe]

Thanks, that was a detailed explanation of the concept of VPIP. I only meet him on GGPoker, but I use what I read here.

If memory serves it literally stands for Voluntarily Put Into Pot lol...

Or something to that effect... 😅

I.E. Whenever chips go in that aren't forced such as antes or blinds... How frequently one chooses to play rather than not.

 

[ginwilly]

A vpip that low would make me fold to any raise you make. Hard to get action with a 10% vpip.

On the other end, a vpip of 50 you want to play as many hands against that you can. Open your range when you can raise first in a little more. I'll raise with hands I normally fold pre just because aggression is so much more profitable.

Whatever you do, don't increase your vpip by limping more. Also, you may have a 10% vpip over this 10k hand sample and over 30% in this other one. It could simply be a case of a long run of card dead.