$0 NL HE MTT: Should I have folded to the shove?

[miklcct]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

0

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Currency

$

It was the GGPoker Weekly Freeroll with bubble size 3215, but the min prize was a ticket and C$ was only offered from the 800th.

There were about 3950 players left, I was at about the 2400th place but I wanted C$ so I wanted to further increase the stack.

When the flop was shown, villain bet, I raised, he shoved and I called. It turned out to be a coin flip as I got a pair but he got the nut draw, and the draw went good, and I was eliminated.

Was my call correct?

 

[SpanRmonka]

This is the exact reason not to play with terrible cards, OK so you're getting decent odds to limp, but you have 3 players behind who can raise you and you have 82s, so even when you make a flush you can often lose, as you did.

Just fold this pre, and wait for better, which won't be that difficult.

Then once you do flop a weak flush draw, I don't like re raising, if you want to play this hand, then surely calling and getting to showdown as cheaply as possible is the better option, rather than making this a hand you make a stand with not that far from the bubble! If if you do hit your flush, its only kind of a bluff catcher at best, depending on prior action.

Also awareness of the other players stacks, he is one player who can play an all in and still have a decent ish stack left, so he has even less reason to fold against you.

 

[alucaa]

I think you played well from my perspective, I imagine you played like this because you saw a good flop for your hand and you wanted more chips, I would easily do the same if I were in your situation

 

[enno]

With 10 BB’s, 82s is not a good enough hand to push all-in pre-flop, or even call a 3B all-in raise on the flop.
Better to fold this hand pre-flop and wait for a better hand.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Why?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Easy fold. Just because two other players have limped, its not profitable to limp behind with any two suited cards.

Flop
You flop a pair + draw, and usually these type of hands play best as a pull rather than a push. The reason to take an aggressive line with draws is to get better hands to fold. Which would be easy, if you had 8 high, but here you actually have second pair, so better hands are mostly top pair, which I dont expect anyone to ever fold in a freeroll. So my prefered play is to just call and see a turn.

And if you are going to raise, I think, this needs to be a jam. Maybe - just maybe - this will get some better hands like second pair better kicker to fold, and with your sizing you are committing yourself to the pot anyway. Which also mean, that when you get 3-bet, its a very easy call, since you are getting 3:1, and you always have equity against a single opponent.

 

[eetenor]

It was the GGPoker Weekly Freeroll with bubble size 3215, but the min prize was a ticket and C$ was only offered from the 800th.

There were about 3950 players left, I was at about the 2400th place but I wanted C$ so I wanted to further increase the stack.

When the flop was shown, villain bet, I raised, he shoved and I called. It turned out to be a coin flip as I got a pair but he got the nut draw, and the draw went good, and I was eliminated.

Was my call correct?

We study poker to learn to play a solid strategy-which means we play hands that play well vs our Villains range -which means our hands have strong equity. 82 suited is not that type of hand. It has terrible equity multiway and huge reverse implied odds as you learned here.

You state "I want to increase my stack" which means you decided to play a low equity hand hoping to hit. We do not play hope poker- we play Equity Advantage poker- if you stay focused on estimating your Equity in these spots rather than thinking, my had can make a flush and win, you will be able to avoid these types of spots easily which will result in you increasing your stack more often instead of busting.

Equilab is a great tool for estimating equities vs V's full range

 

[miklcct]

We study poker to learn to play a solid strategy-which means we play hands that play well vs our Villains range -which means our hands have strong equity. 82 suited is not that type of hand. It has terrible equity multiway and huge reverse implied odds as you learned here.

You state "I want to increase my stack" which means you decided to play a low equity hand hoping to hit. We do not play hope poker- we play Equity Advantage poker- if you stay focused on estimating your Equity in these spots rather than thinking, my had can make a flush and win, you will be able to avoid these types of spots easily which will result in you increasing your stack more often instead of busting.

Equilab is a great tool for estimating equities vs V's full range

My plan was to bet hard when it hits, such that I could double my stack, and fold when it doesn't.

Doesn't two suited small play well in multi-way, because you either hit hard on the flop or not?

Why does 82s have reverse implied odds rather than implied odds? Implied odds is the reason that some low equity hands, such as low suited connectors, are playable.

 

[eetenor]

My plan was to bet hard when it hits, such that I could double my stack, and fold when it doesn't.

Doesn't two suited small play well in multi-way, because you either hit hard on the flop or not?

Why does 82s have reverse implied odds rather than implied odds? Implied odds is the reason that some low equity hands, such as low suited connectors, are playable.

The fact that in a multiway pot other players can have higher flush draws and that exact thing happened here is why 82s has reverse implied odds.
When flush draws have implied odds is when we make a flush it will be the best hand and more chips will go into the pot then. Not the fifth best flush on this board and all the chips going in now. Count how many combos of Axhh the other player could be holding ---7 combos of nut flushes as played in a limped pot - now think about the Jx and tx combos your V has over a dozen combos of better flushes as played. That is a lot of reverse implied odds to overcome.

 

[SpanRmonka]

My plan was to bet hard when it hits, such that I could double my stack, and fold when it doesn't.

Doesn't two suited small play well in multi-way, because you either hit hard on the flop or not?

Why does 82s have reverse implied odds rather than implied odds? Implied odds is the reason that some low equity hands, such as low suited connectors, are playable.

I think what has happened here is that the definition of hitting hard is not clear, or is oopen to interpretation.

2nd pair, and a draw to the 6th best flush on the flop is certainly not mine, but it seems like it is yours.

Hitting hard for me would be K82 rainbow, or K22? I don't even consider KT5 all hearts as hitting hard, as you can still lose so easily on later streets or be drawing almost dead on the flop!! But even the hands I consider hitting hard hands, there are many ways that you can still lose on later streets.