$7.5 NL HE MTT: Top pair good kicker getting donked into on the flop and then facing a tripple barrel

[fundiver199]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

7.5

Game Options

1. Bounty
2. Turbo

Currency

$

Game is a $7.5 "Hot" PKO on PokerStars. UTG+1 had just joined the tournament, so the HUD had not popped up yet. I did however have a yellow label on him, which mean 40+ % VPIP. Which does of course fit well in line with him limp-calling preflop. Do you raise or fold at any point in the hand?

PokerStars, $6.69 + $0.81 - Hold'em No Limit - 25/50 (6 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=625zTXDYp

UTG: 9,940 (199 bb)
UTG+1: 5,000 (100 bb)
MP: 4,930 (99 bb)
MP+1: 4,518 (90 bb)
CO: 4,204 (84 bb)
BU (Hero): 5,555 (111 bb)
SB: 5,279 (106 bb)
BB: 5,134 (103 bb)

Pre-Flop: (123) Hero is BTN with J♣ A♦
1 fold, UTG+1 calls 50, 3 players fold, Hero raises to 175, SB calls 150, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls 125

Flop: (623) A♥ 4♣ 8♠ (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets 623, Hero calls 623, SB folds

Turn: (1,869) 9♣ (2 players)
UTG+1 bets 935, Hero calls 935

River: (3,739) 9♥ (2 players)
UTG+1 bets 1,870, Hero?

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

Cant imagine folding that ever against such a player and those lines. Normally i just call that down, in some very rare cases i might put in a small raise on the river but the "to go play" is definitely just to call imo.

 

[puzzlefish]

I don't know. Ok, on the one hand I want to not respect these types of donk bets of pot followed by half pots. On the other hand, it could be two pairs or a set played by this type of player, or even stronger Aces AK and AQ. The VPIP maybe widens their range but does not take out the hands that will have us dominated in these spots. There is nothing to say they don't have it in this case, except maybe the weird river bet when they can just jam all in. If I just keep calling I am hoping he has A4 or A8 here.

 

[fundiver199]

or even stronger Aces AK and AQ.

It would be nice to have some HUD-data and know, if this opponent has a raising range or just limp everything. But as a default I would assume, that AK or AQ get raised preflop most of the time or maybe limp-reraised rather than limp-called. So while we can not rule those hands out completely, I would tend to discount them quite a lot.

 

[kunkgreen]

Well... Generally, we don't want to go this deep with just top pair in the early hands, but due to the villain's action, which seems to be a weak player's line, and we also have the bounty incentive.

I also think the aces that dominate us would re-raise our raise. I also think that since we have a call from the small blind, the best hands from UTG+1 should raise.

They could have many things in this situation, really with a very wide range which includes many more bluffs.

It's a shame we don't have any more information about the villain at this point.

The doubling of the nine on the turn now makes us beat hands that made any 2 pairs on the flop, we still haven't beaten the sets.

But why would the sets donkaria on a totally uncoordinated flop if he could benefit more from check-raising, for example? Besides having an Ace that someone probably hit,

Generally with this type of player, very active, with many limps, I have a greater tendency to call, but I think we can find a balance between calling and folding.

One of the biggest incentives to call here, I believe, is still the bounty.

 

[fundiver199]

One of the biggest incentives to call here, I believe, is still the bounty.

The bounty only come into play, if we jam, and he call it off.

 

[kunkgreen]

The bounty only come into play, if we jam, and he call it off.

I thought at this point he was all-in, but I was wrong!

I hate having to convert the chips to big blind to better visualize the hand heights. hehe

Well... After seeing the result, I believe the villain played 'honestly', however he should have understood on the river how much the 9 doubled up was hurting him, even inducing the hero to call more often, even with some weak aces (although weak aces might not have made it).

So overall I think we leaned towards calling... More or less because of what I said about the 9 doubled up.

Any chance we should consider a raise on the river?

I mean, when we do that we'd only get called by better hands, right? And the villain folds his worst hands, right?

 

[fundiver199]

Well... After seeing the result

I can see, that I included a link to the replayer, which was unintentional. I usually post that separately after a few days

I believe the villain played 'honestly'

I did not love the spot, when he potted the flop, but at the same time I felt, it would be to tight to just straight out fold top pair good kicker to a donk bet. He could have two pair or sets, but its also not uncommon to see one of those "donks" massively overplay top pair bad kicker. So for that reason I think, we have to call flop. And when he then size down to half pot on the turn, it looks kind of weak, so at that point I am certainly not folding.

however he should have understood on the river how much the 9 doubled up was hurting him, even inducing the hero to call more often, even with some weak aces (although weak aces might not have made it).

He probably did not even understand, that he was counterfeited and now lost to any AX. If 84 is betting the river, its a bluff trying to get AX to fold, and to even have a chance of that happening, he need to jam. But against an unknown opponent early in a PKO the better line is to just accept, what happened, and check-fold the river.

Any chance we should consider a raise on the river?

This is one of the reasons, I shared the hand, because I actually think, there is a decent case for jamming the river and try to win his bounty. With this runout and line there are just so few hands, AJ lose to. Not just 84 but all the flopped two pair got counterfeited, and it would be kind of weird for him to limp-call AK or AQ preflop and then donk out for full pot on the flop.

And 9X would be even weirder. Donking full pot on the flop with absolutely nothing (there were no draws), then betting half pot on the turn with second pair and not getting it in with trips on the river? That would be a really weird line even for a fish. So I mainly lose to boats here, and there has to be at least some frequency of boats jamming the river rather than leaving 28% of the starting stack behind.

I mean, when we do that we'd only get called by better hands, right? And the villain folds his worst hands, right?

If he was bluffing the whole time, then he will likely fold. But if he has any AX including the counterfeited A8 and A4, then he is surely going to call it off getting more than 6:1 on a river jam. Even the 84, he actually had, might have called not understanding the counterfeit or due to entitlement tilt. Like "F... it, I hate this stupid game, I call".

 

[Geo90]

It's always difficult to play against limpers because they have such a wide range. Unfortunately, I saw the result.

Preflop raise is fine.

Flop: Big raise, 1 pot. We can't fold here, but we can't raise back either, as that would be too aggressive. He might have 44, 88, or A8, which would beat us.

The turn didn't change much, but he bet only 1/2 pot. I think 3bet would be too aggressive

River Again, a 1/2 pot bet . If it had been a full house with 44 88 A8, then he jam. 9 is unlikely after the flop, so I could have considered going all-in here, but there aren't many worse hands that would call here. I think the call was good. Even if it's a full house, there are still 40BB left to continue.

 

[eetenor]

Game is a $7.5 "Hot" PKO on PokerStars. UTG+1 had just joined the tournament, so the HUD had not popped up yet. I did however have a yellow label on him, which mean 40+ % VPIP. Which does of course fit well in line with him limp-calling preflop. Do you raise or fold at any point in the hand?

PokerStars, $6.69 + $0.81 - Hold'em No Limit - 25/50 (6 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer?hand=625zTXDYp

UTG: 9,940 (199 bb)
UTG+1: 5,000 (100 bb)
MP: 4,930 (99 bb)
MP+1: 4,518 (90 bb)
CO: 4,204 (84 bb)
BU (Hero): 5,555 (111 bb)
SB: 5,279 (106 bb)
BB: 5,134 (103 bb)

Pre-Flop: (123) Hero is BTN with J♣ A♦
1 fold, UTG+1 calls 50, 3 players fold, Hero raises to 175, SB calls 150, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls 125

Flop: (623) A♥ 4♣ 8♠ (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets 623, Hero calls 623, SB folds

Turn: (1,869) 9♣ (2 players)
UTG+1 bets 935, Hero calls 935

River: (3,739) 9♥ (2 players)
UTG+1 bets 1,870, Hero?

As played this is a call with no post flop player data- river improves us--there a far more combos of Ax that we beat than 44 or 88 and most players do not lead pot with sets like this, the sizing is often smaller as they fear folds. No 9x hand makes sense except A9-- 89 just does not lead in this spot very often. AQ does not make sense but again player data is what matters here as we are way off any normal line and bad V can show up with poorly played (vs solid players) boats.