$7.5 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: How to play better?

[SuzdalDEcor]

Wanted to float, eventually turned the air into a bluff.Someone playing check-fold flop in the same spot?

https://www.boomplayer.com/28022442_36EEA20C54

 

[tmfnsanders]

Seems fine to me. I probably just c/f flop personally but stacks are plenty deep to get a little wonky here and there. Curious what the plan was if he called turn and you don't improve, were you going to give up or fire big on most rivers that don't smash his range?

 

[mitroff]

I would not choose such a line of the game. You do not have cards blocking at least some combination of the opponent. What would you do if the flush closed on the river?

 

[Flight777sem]

I think it’s okay, can’t say it’s a great play but sometimes it’s good to try stealing in these kind if spots

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

Seems fine to me. I probably just c/f flop personally but stacks are plenty deep to get a little wonky here and there. Curious what the plan was if he called turn and you don't improve, were you going to give up or fire big on most rivers that don't smash his range?

The plan was this: If I will get something, will play check-called. if i dont hit something and opponent doesn't bet, I'll bet. In all other cases I was going to give up.

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

I would not choose such a line of the game. You do not have cards blocking at least some combination of the opponent. What would you do if the flush closed on the river?

I think better question will be: What would i do if the flush dont closed on the river? xDDDD If the flush will be closed, ofc i will give up.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I'm definitely check folding flop. If you want to make moves on these kinds of boards, pick slightly more connected ones usually and make them check raises imo.

Floating is theoretically "fine" but the hand is so hard to maneuver in from OOP, and with this exact holding we don't even really have anything in the way of backdoors - just our two overs - so I'd rather pick holdings that have some chance of improving.

In general picking close to zero equity bluffs is bad. Especially when we don't give ourselves the chance to win the hand right now either.

As played on the flop, I get the turn play... we kind of feel like we HAVE to do SOMEthing now, right? But is this even that good of a card to do it on? It's a card that a fair bit of villain's bluff range actually DOES connect with, and I think the only hands we rep are straights, sets, and MAYBE something like Q6s or Q4s. (I don't think we're ever check raising a naked queen on this board for value.)

I assume this will work a decent amount of the time but I think this comes back to the flop decision being really unnecessary, and us just getting tied into taking bad bluff spots. Just because we can take a line that looks strong doesn't mean we have enough value combos that we can bluff that spot with abandon.

Anyway I'm glad it worked out for you, but at least in the future you can pick some hands with a backdoor flush draw on the flop to float with - then we will have some bluffs that actually make sense (AND block our opponent's continuing range on some runouts).

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

As played on the flop, I get the turn play... we kind of feel like we HAVE to do SOMEthing now, right? But is this even that good of a card to do it on? It's a card that a fair bit of villain's bluff range actually DOES connect with, and I think the only hands we rep are straights, sets, and MAYBE something like Q6s or Q4s. (I don't think we're ever check raising a naked queen on this board for value.)

Why you forgot about the fact that our range has sets, straights, 64s, 42s, Q2s?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Why you forgot about the fact that our range has sets, straights, 64s, 42s, Q2s?

Really??

As played on the flop, I get the turn play... we kind of feel like we HAVE to do SOMEthing now, right? But is this even that good of a card to do it on? It's a card that a fair bit of villain's bluff range actually DOES connect with, and I think the only hands we rep are straights, sets, and MAYBE something like Q6s or Q4s. (I don't think we're ever check raising a naked queen on this board for value.)

I get it if you disagree with my point of view, but you should at least read the response before saying I didn't consider something. I very clearly said I think we rep sets, straights, and sometimes a weird two pair. I didn't include 64s bc I think it's discounted due to the flop action.

Also I don't know what your defend range looks like there in the BB so I have to make educated guesses. This is always true when you post a hand like this with no additional context about your ranges. Personally I usually don't defend the BB there with Q2s and 42s, but if you do, that's fine - you just can't assume other people will know that about you though.

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

Really??

Oh, man... sorry, i mean we may have all of sets and streights.

should be so:

Why you forgot about the fact that our range has ALL OF sets, straights, 64s, 42s, Q2s?

It is very large value range.
Your post was like we has little value range

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I admire your moxy but I think you have poor hand selection. floating from OOP is tricky and if we are shallower it's easier to check raise than to float OOP. We are fairly deep here so a flop float does work better than it otherwise would (when we don't want to just give up). But I think the far superior play is to just give up. We are facing an EP range. we are getting quite fancy for no good reason.

I want to float with something like 2 overs and a backdoor flush draw, or 1 over and a gutter.

we just have 2 naked overs so I think it's a check fold on the flop.

keep in mind....the backdoors don't simply serve as additional equity....they serve as a limiter....a regulator to keep us from overbluffing. If we don't use backdoors to do this then we have to use some other randomization method and that is A) more complicated and B) less equity than just also having the back door equity.

if I had or I like the float (or CR) a LOT better.

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

I admire your moxy but I think you have poor hand selection. floating from OOP is tricky and if we are shallower it's easier to check raise than to float OOP. We are fairly deep here so a flop float does work better than it otherwise would (when we don't want to just give up). But I think the far superior play is to just give up. We are facing an EP range. we are getting quite fancy for no good reason.

I want to float with something like 2 overs and a backdoor flush draw, or 1 over and a gutter.

we just have 2 naked overs so I think it's a check fold on the flop.

keep in mind....the backdoors don't simply serve as additional equity....they serve as a limiter....a regulator to keep us from overbluffing. If we don't use backdoors to do this then we have to use some other randomization method and that is A) more complicated and B) less equity than just also having the back door equity.

if I had or I like the float (or CR) a LOT better.

Thank you for such a deep analysis. I think CR for bluff will be better in this spot always.:top: