Call or Fold

[sandy358]

The hand happened in last night's CardsChat freeroll. There were 20 players left, and 15 players were getting paid. I was in 4th place. From the UTG+1 position, I raised 2.1 BB, and the player on the BTN went all-in. If you were me, would you fold or call?

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It's a call without a second thought. You have your standard 18BB rejam from the button and you have a good ace, so you should just call there. Unless you are up against a nit or a fish that rejams below the frequency that GTO demands and rejams top nuts, but even in this scenario calling is an option you should consider.

 

[sandy358]

Unfortunately, I played badly and called. Fortunately, this happened in a freeroll, so I didn’t get penalized much.

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Nope, you played correctly. It's just how 20BB deep game plays out most of the time, a pocket pair flips against an ace after a preflop jam.

 

[primrose]

It's a call without a second thought. You have your standard 18BB rejam from the button and you have a good ace, so you should just call there. Unless you are up against a nit or a fish that rejams below the frequency that GTO demands and rejams top nuts, but even in this scenario calling is an option you should consider.

You're making it sound as if this is a fringe hypothetical. It's a freeroll tournament and GTO jams crazy wide relative to intuition; 90% of players are going to jam less than GTO demands.

 

[sandy358]

You're making it sound as if this is a fringe hypothetical. It's a freeroll tournament and GTO jams crazy wide relative to intuition; 90% of players are going to jam less than GTO demands.

Idk, I've seen enough good freeroll players that play pretty well and even in this case it is a relatively decent rejam. For freerolls with less decent players and very fishy playerbase it is usually the opposite and people would jam complete garbage far too often. AQs is still a hand you would rarely want to fold against a singular small jam as it has very good raw equity, especially considering that the OP was the last to act preflop.

 

[primrose]

Idk, I've seen enough good freeroll players that play pretty well and even in this case it is a relatively decent rejam. For freerolls with less decent players and very fishy playerbase it is usually the opposite and people would jam complete garbage far too often. AQs is still a hand you would rarely want to fold against a singular small jam as it has very good raw equity, especially considering that the OP was the last to act preflop.

Interesting take, you definitely know more about freerolls.

But even if you saw the TT, would you actually call? You make 4000 chips in expectation, but it's an ICM nightmare. I think it's probably a narrow fold, especially if you think you still have an edge if you can keep playing.

 

[sandy358]

Interesting take, you definitely know more about freerolls.

But even if you saw the TT, would you actually call? You make 4000 chips in expectation, but it's an ICM nightmare. I think it's probably a narrow fold, especially if you think you still have an edge if you can keep playing.

Oh, I didn't take ICM into account. From this perspective it may be a definite fold, though we need to double check as ICM ranges really love ace blockers and especially suited aces.

 

[primrose]

I wonder if the ICM situation is actually a reason to shove wider than 15 BB because of situations like this. If you want to fold more to other big stacks, that gives them an incentive to shove over you. If both players saw each other's hands, then it would probably be correct for AQs to fold (though it's close) and that makes it correct for TT to shove. But if AQs just open-shoves, TT should fold.

(This is probably a known concept/question, but I'm not an ICM expert.)

This is more theoretical though, in reality TT probably calls even if we open-shove. Though, who knows.

 

[Shooter74]

I think folding is the best choice...the opponent seems to be playing solidly (24% pre-flop raise, right??)

 

[Marshmalo1994]

The hand happened in last night's CardsChat freeroll. There were 20 players left, and 15 players were getting paid. I was in 4th place. From the UTG+1 position, I raised 2.1 BB, and the player on the BTN went all-in. If you were me, would you fold or call?

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I think is ok to fold. He is risking a 5th/7th place in the bubble. In the best case, you are facing a flip.

 

[fundiver199]

I ran the spot in ICMizer with a small modification, since I dont know any tournaments, that pay 15 people, or what the exact payouts are on GG Poker for such a freeroll. So I pretended, it was a PokerStars 90-man SnG (these dont run any more), where 13 places pay, and with 18 players left, so we are still 5 places from the money.

Its actually closer, than I though. AQs is a call but so marginal, that it does not matter at all, if we call or fold. At the Nash equilibrium Villain is jamming AJ+, A8s+, KQ, KTs+, QJs, 66+. This seem pretty realistic to me, and I dont think, anyone can say, they know for sure, that a random brasilian player in a freeroll is jamming more or less than this.

So the objective answer to this is, that its fine to call, and its also fine to fold. Personally I would always call in such spots in a freeroll, because the min-cash is insignificant, and I would rather increase my chance of actually winning the tournament, plus if I bust, I dont need to spend any more time on a freeroll. So for me saving time makes a neutral EV "flip" valuable, but if you are looking for more final table experience, maybe you should lean towards a fold.

 

[hardongear]

I ran the spot in ICMizer with a small modification, since I dont know any tournaments, that pay 15 people, or what the exact payouts are on GG Poker for such a freeroll. So I pretended, it was a PokerStars 90-man SnG (these dont run any more), where 13 places pay, and with 18 players left, so we are still 5 places from the money.

Its actually closer, than I though. AQs is a call but so marginal, that it does not matter at all, if we call or fold. At the Nash equilibrium Villain is jamming AJ+, A8s+, KQ, KTs+, QJs, 66+. This seem pretty realistic to me, and I dont think, anyone can say, they know for sure, that a random brasilian player in a freeroll is jamming more or less than this.

So the objective answer to this is, that its fine to call, and its also fine to fold. Personally I would always call in such spots in a freeroll, because the min-cash is insignificant, and I would rather increase my chance of actually winning the tournament, plus if I bust, I dont need to spend any more time on a freeroll. So for me saving time makes a neutral EV "flip" valuable, but if you are looking for more final table experience, maybe you should lean towards a fold.

I think for me I just hate calling off in this spot......where as if I'm the first one in and shoving I don't mind it as much. With that said in a freeroll I don't think it really matters because villain isn't thinking at that level or he most likely isn't thinking at that level. Which is all why I tend to fold to lock up an ITM finish.

Villains VPIP also makes a bit of difference to me in these spots. If villain has a higher VPIP I'm likely to call off. Like if he has a 35-40+ VPIP I'd likely lean a lot more too calling.

I miss those old 45, 90 and 180 SnG's on Pokerstars. Great for evening playing during the week.

Cheers!!!

 

[steve01991]

fold and get paid

 

[fundiver199]

Villains VPIP also makes a bit of difference to me in these spots. If villain has a higher VPIP I'm likely to call off. Like if he has a 35-40+ VPIP I'd likely lean a lot more too calling.

Yes this makes a big difference, although for me it would be the other way around meaning I call against anyone with a normal VPIP but might fold, if its much below 20%. I just hate making nitty folds in freerolls and waste my time trying to min-cash for 20c or whatever, only to then have some goofball proudly show the table, that he was bluffing with "the Robbi" or "the Brunson" or 72 just for LOLs.

I miss those old 45, 90 and 180 SnG's on Pokerstars. Great for evening playing during the week.

We still kind of have 45 mans in the form of 9-45 and 18-45 man On Demand games, which at least in the evening tend to fill to the maximum 45 players. And the 12-18 man On Demand games can also work as a sort of replacement. But still its not at all, what it used to be even just 3-4 years ago

 

[Rldetheflop]

Definite fold one of the biggest leak in poker is overplaying AQ