V-bet v Player Information: Which is more important to you?

[takinitSLEAZEE]

Hey folx, I was in a hand not long ago in a tournament and played AQ against another player who was in position, betting the flop and turn but checking the river in which he checked behind me. We went to showdown and he flipped over AJ, I had turned the 2 pr. As I was dragging in the pot another player asked me why I didn't bet the river for value. I told him that if I did the player would probably fold and I wouldn't know exactly what he had. He looked at me and then at my pile of chips and then at his. He smiled and told me he hadn't really thought about it that way. I let him know that I put him on that exact hand but I wanted to be sure. This was a player who had position on me and a little loose, so I nixed value for player info. I wound up knocking the guy out a little while later w/KK v 44. So I think my rvr-check paid off.
Your thoughts...

 

[Kurchina]

I like the way you think. Obviously, this was live, so in my view you made the right decision. Online, you'd probably bet on the river and hope he calls, right?

 

[dannystanks]

If I get to the river I’m going to try and get that value , that’s what I live for in tournaments. Good job busting him out!

 

[takinitSLEAZEE]

Both sides of the coin, cool. This is another reason why I love poker, there's no definitive "right" answer.
For the v-bet side I suppose some kind of bet, even if it's only a few BB's, would be appropriate and not scare him away.
For the info-gathering side of it I suppose I should trust my initial read. I really did put him on AJ, and if I remember correctly the flop was an A-10-9 and the Q hit the turn, so he was on the straight draw to the river as well as top pair.
Ever since then I've been trying to fire that 3rd barrel whenever I can, virtual or real felt. These Texas games can get real sketchy.
Excellent food for thought. Thanx for not letting me starve, guys.

 

[YLAN]

This is another reason why I love poker, there's no definitive "right" answer.

That is correct. When you've gotten over the "bookish" instructions on how to play & is able to create your own game plan then pundits would be bewildered on moves that are not right for them but is best for you. The OP reminds me of a friend that I used to play with before. He is "uneducated" but plays people in the table like a fiddle and brings home all the money most of the time.

One time I asked him, I know you have been playing poker since a small kid with your father & his peers. You cannot read & write since you were not able to go to school & instead just helped your parents in the farm but those who studied poker cannot hold their ground with you, why is that? He said, my friend, though I cannot read your books, I can read your gameplay like an open book. LOL

 

[eetenor]

Hey folx, I was in a hand not long ago in a tournament and played AQ against another player who was in position, betting the flop and turn but checking the river in which he checked behind me. We went to showdown and he flipped over AJ, I had turned the 2 pr. As I was dragging in the pot another player asked me why I didn't bet the river for value. I told him that if I did the player would probably fold and I wouldn't know exactly what he had. He looked at me and then at my pile of chips and then at his. He smiled and told me he hadn't really thought about it that way. I let him know that I put him on that exact hand but I wanted to be sure. This was a player who had position on me and a little loose, so I nixed value for player info. I wound up knocking the guy out a little while later w/KK v 44. So I think my rvr-check paid off.
Your thoughts...

Getting data is good but applied in the wrong spot- We could check that spot with less than two pair- maybe second pair rather than go for thin value to get info on our V if we wanted to do that. That would be a reasonable trade off.
Also a key aspect of poker is trusting our reads so in this spot again we would not check but we might bet 10% pot to trigger a bluff or to get a call if we were certain they would not pay to see the river.

As well if the V turned over AJ there is not a lot we learn from that other than why the hell would they ever show you their cards.
If you checked a rivered two pair--- what you did is tell everyone else at the table how you play---
We have to be very careful about doing that-

Also never tell anyone ever why you did something like that- You are giving away way too much info- even bad players can play better vs you now as they will check back rivers to you---in a cash game that might be a strat we use as we can steal more pots but in a tourny we need to get those river chips when our V bet worse when we check.

Lastly your river check with two pair is not strongly connected to the KK/ 44 hand- we want to be very careful about giving credit to earlier actions because of indirect results later. It will lead us to over valuing the concept of getting info in tournament poker.