5NL FR - QQ on the CO, loads of action, what would you do??

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orangepeeleo

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This hand tilted me for a little bit, the reason why won't become clear until i post the results but what would you do here??

The session stats on these 2 were Amazee - 29/3/30 and Cean - 64/7/31 , both HUGE af, some people (myself included) dont like this stat but i know that it could help some people on here who might like to comment on the hand. No real read as such because i was 6 tabling, just these stats to go off really.

I think this is a WA/WB scenario??

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP3: $9.35 (187 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.73 (114.6 bb)
BTN: $7.12 (142.4 bb)
SB: $12.85 (257 bb)
BB: $1.70 (34 bb)
UTG: $3.13 (62.6 bb)
UTG+1: $6.27 (125.4 bb)
MP1: $6.76 (135.2 bb)
MP2: $9.04 (180.8 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Q
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Q
club.gif

UTG calls $0.05, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB calls $0.28, BB folds, UTG calls $0.25, MP1 folds

Flop: ($1.00) T
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9
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2
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(3 players)
SB bets $0.15, UTG raises to $0.60, Hero raises to $1.20, SB calls $1.05, UTG calls $0.60

Turn: ($4.60) 5
diamond.gif
(3 players)
SB bets $0.70, UTG raises to $1.63 and is all-in, Hero folds, SB calls $0.93

River: ($7.86) 6
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(2 players, 1 is all-in)

I folded because there was a hell of a lot of action going on and i just thought my overpair wasn't good enough anymore and was maybe facing a set or 2 pair minimum, what are your thoughts here, did i make a good fold, did i play the hand well at all??

Any help would be hugely appreciated because this hand really threw me.
 
Raise more on flop. Don't fold overpairs at 5nl. Don't be afraid of action on action flops against aggro villains.
 
How many hands are these stats for?

With 2 limps in front your preflop raise could be a little bigger but not a big deal. Flop comes, and two aggressive players play aggressively, I raise more as the pt when it gets to you is 1.75, I make it 2.00 to go and call a shove obviously. The only reasonable hand you are worried about is 9/10 and AA-KK riase preflop they dont limp call.

Folding the turn imo is horrible, as it is a blank for any of the draws they might be on, I would shove the turn if it isn't already all in the middle.

My thoughts.
 
Steveg1976 said:
Folding the turn imo is horrible, as it is a blank for any of the draws they might be on, I would shove the turn if it isn't already all in the middle.
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Looking forward to seeing the result - I'm thinkingTPGK and a flush or straight draw - I don't see this as WA/WB, I think you're solidly ahead through the turn and shoving, 9T or a set is seeing monsters under the bed...
 
Steveg1976 said:
How many hands are these stats for?

With 2 limps in front your preflop raise could be a little bigger but not a big deal. Flop comes, and two aggressive players play aggressively, I raise more as the pt when it gets to you is 1.75, I make it 2.00 to go and call a shove obviously. The only reasonable hand you are worried about is 9/10 and AA-KK riase preflop they dont limp call.

Folding the turn imo is horrible, as it is a blank for any of the draws they might be on, I would shove the turn if it isn't already all in the middle.

My thoughts.
Click to expand...

I dont understand why folding the turn is horrible?? UTG raised the sb's min bet on the flop, that says to me the sb has hit maybe middle pair or is on a fd but UTG has a hand and is trying to protect it, 10/9 is a possiblity but so are 99 and 1010 both of these hands explain the flat call of my raise pf i think... which is why i said i thought it was WA/WB he either has tpgk or a set, if i re-raise bigger on the flop dont i chase out any hands that i beat but get the hands that are beating me to come over the top??
 
orangepeeleo said:
I dont understand why folding the turn is horrible?? UTG raised the sb's min bet on the flop, that says to me the sb has hit maybe middle pair or is on a fd but UTG has a hand and is trying to protect it, 10/9 is a possiblity but so are 99 and 1010 both of these hands explain the flat call of my raise pf i think... which is why i said i thought it was WA/WB he either has tpgk or a set, if i re-raise bigger on the flop dont i chase out any hands that i beat but get the hands that are beating me to come over the top??
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According to your stats they are both loose and aggressive, you can't see monsters under the bed all the time against these kinds of villians. A limp call preflop from these guys indicates to me 55-JJ and 56s-10Js, something like that anyway. So it is very concievable they are on draws, raising more on the flop allows you punish the draws as well as getting value from JJ that think they are still good. With big cards Like QQ you want to play them very fast to prevent getting out drawn while at the same time getting value.

Also this is not a WA/WB scenerio as there are draws and such out there. Typically WA/WB is a spot where they are either crushing you or way behing making check calling the best line, this is not that spot.

The turn fold is horrible becuase Draws are still a major portion of their preflop range, if you are going to fold here you would have been better off just folding on the flop as the turn card is a blank so nothing in the hand has changed (most likely).

This is all just what I see btw, I claim no super poker skill 🙂

Here is a link to WA/WB thread if you haven't seen it so you can see why it doesn't apply here better than I can explain: WA/WB
 
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Sorry i didn't post the results of this guys, totally forgot about it until i was scanning through the HA section and spotted this one by me lol

Some good advice, I've recently added AF to my Hud because of this hand, I only noticed the villains were very aggro after the session because i never really used AF on my hud, had i been using AF then "two aggressive players play aggressively" would have been crystal clear and i would have won the hand 🙁 anyways, the results after i folded were, 1 guy turns over A10 and the other 10,8 grrrr it still amazes me how badly some of these people play, at least i'm leagues ahead of 10,8 dude in terms of being able to fold a hand lol

I guess i did see monsters under the bed after all 😡 thanks for the advice guys
 
orangepeeleo said:
...1 guy turns over A10 and the other 10,8 grrrr it still amazes me how badly some of these people play, at least i'm leagues ahead of 10,8 dude in terms of being able to fold a hand lol

I guess i did see monsters under the bed after all 😡 thanks for the advice guys
Click to expand...

It amazes me that you mentioned at the start of your post how huge the AF was for these villains then went ahead and showed them undue respect by folding an overpair against them.

You get such huge numbers for AF by overplaying top pair or second pair type hands or bluffing too much. Against players with AF of 0.5 the fold would have been reasonable but against a couple of super aggressive players it is weak to fold overpair.
 
orangepeeleo said:
I dont understand why folding the turn is horrible??
Click to expand...

Because you have an overpair vs. horrible, aggressive players at 5NL on a board with a s***load of draws.
 
EvilEmperor said:
It amazes me that you mentioned at the start of your post how huge the AF was for these villains then went ahead and showed them undue respect by folding an overpair against them.

You get such huge numbers for AF by overplaying top pair or second pair type hands or bluffing too much. Against players with AF of 0.5 the fold would have been reasonable but against a couple of super aggressive players it is weak to fold overpair.
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It amazes me that you didnt read the post above yours where i stated that i have only just added AF to my HUD.

"I've recently added AF to my Hud because of this hand, I only noticed the villains were very aggro after the session"

"had i been using AF then "two aggressive players play aggressively" would have been crystal clear and i would have won the hand"

I think you've got to have big sample sizes for the AF to really come into it's own, I sometimes start a session with AF of like 20 but that doesnt say a thing about how i play and by the end it's always back down to 2 or somewhere around there.
 
orangepeeleo said:
I think you've got to have big sample sizes for the AF to really come into it's own, I sometimes start a session with AF of like 20 but that doesnt say a thing about how i play and by the end it's always back down to 2 or somewhere around there.
Click to expand...

an AF of 20 means you bet/raised 20 times more than you called. That requires at least 21 samples, and it starts to be significant.
 
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