Can't beat $10NL Blitz (fast fold) BUT bossing it at $25NL (reg 6max)

I will be really shocked if the most of the users will agree with you. I mean really...What you want me to do? To go at NL10 and play 200k hands!? Fck this...Fck PS...I am done with this. You are right, I am wrong.

Its certainly true, that Cardschat is different from "other poker forums". "Other poker forums" are filled with a lot of big egos, and are not very welcoming to beginners. Which is why I spend some time here but not in any of those "other forums"

Speaking of training sites and coaches one of the main beefs, I have with this industri is, that most of the people in it started playing poker a long time ago, and they dont have any recent experience with the games, their students are actually playing. Which is of course mostly the micros.

So they dont know, how soft or tough these games actually are, and they also dont know, how they play. And for that reason sometimes these coaches and training sites can actually do more harm than good to people just starting out.

Returning to the topic of Zoom vs. regular cash games as with so many other things, it all depends. Inspired by this thread I actually just played 200 hands at the 10NL 888 Poker SNAP table. And ok I was exaggerating. Today this game was good with maybe 15% recreational players, and I won 150BB over this small sample.

However this also showed up in the form of a 22-23% players per flop in the lobby. And when was the last time in human memory, someone saw this kind of number for a PokerStars Zoom game? There were also only around 45 people playing, and neither the 50NL or 5NL table was playing anywhere near as loose, so basically I just got lucky to get in the game at a good time.

But maybe these SNAP games on 888 are actually better than Zoom on PokerStars, after 888 started allowing the use of HUDs. Having only 45 players in the pool rather than 450 is just so superior, because you actually pick up a sample on the fish, and you also get to see them again, while you can still remember, what you saw them do in a previous hand.

UkoChebuko said:

What you want me to do? To go at NL10 and play 200k hands!?

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Of course not. But maybe stop making bold claims about something, you actually know nothing about, because you have no recent personal experience.

But you have...With your "experience" you can say "NL10 is unbeatable". I will stop. For sure. Don't bother...

fundiver199 said:

The other issue is, that if everyone play GTO and does it well, then everyone lose at the rate of the rake, which is around 10 BB / 100 for a game like 10NL 6-max. And I am actually not sure, these games are even beatable today on sites like PokerStars, 888 Poker or ACR.

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The above is, what I actually said. I highlighted a central part of my statement, which you seem to have been missing all the time.

You want a proof. I am just talking/speculating (but not you). But you are "not sure". You have an experience, I don't.


You are also said that:

The other issue is, that if everyone play GTO and does it well, then everyone lose at the rate of the rake, which is around 10 BB / 100 for a game like 10NL 6-max

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Most of the players at 10NL Zoom are regs. Probably somewhere between 95-98%, which is the entire problem

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Are you sure for this then!?

which you seem to have been missing all the time

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Yeah, yeah...Whatever...There was a lot of "statements". You are not "sure". Well, I am just "talking" then. What exactly is your problem then!? You want a "proof". Put $1k in your pocket. Go to Nathan, you will have your "proof". No one will show your 200k sample at NL10. For free... Only , because you ask for this. You really want that? Some fake graph? And this will be a "proof" for you!? Go to some coach, pay some money, they will show you everything. 10/100 ... Or 15/100. Or even 20/100, if you want that. And if you pay for this. This hand history, this are simple text files. You can do whatever you want to do. With this text files. Also he can just use a "selection". If you want only "200k". This means nothing.

But not for the beginners. No matter what you say, they don't listen, they don't think, they just argue "Who are you to tell". They want graphs. The magical graphs. Well, you will see that. This magic. If you pay.

I saw enough from this forum. Now I am "upset". Some "GTO talking" for the nano limits, for the freerolls. The poker is rigged, the poker are not profitable anymore, NL10 is unbeatable. Enough...Also the mods don't care about the very obv "troll activity".
Obv this is the case. So many visitors in this topic. Obv they are agree with you. They like that. "We can't, because this is not possible". Bye...

fundiver199 said:

The above is, what I actually said. I highlighted a central part of my statement, which you seem to have been missing all the time.

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It's a fight against windmills.

fundiver199 said:

This is, what my database show for 10NL, and I think, its completely normal. I play around 22-23% VPIP for 6-max, which I certainly dont think is particularly loose, and I am a bit on the passive side preflop. Maybe you can get away with 8-9BB / 100, if you play really tight, but I dought anything below that is realistic. Of course as you move up, the rake will go down slightly because of the per pot cap. This is essentially never reached at 10NL, so every time you AK goes all in preflop against another AK, PokerStars keep 4,5% of your money, and most other sites keep 5%.

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So I calculated, and for the rake I pay, I'm paying out at about 6bb/100 before my rakeback. I made a couple adjustments, maybe went on a heater too, and almost back to even, just a few buy-ins below 0 after almost 50k hands.

I can perhaps share how to not-lose, but also not win, lol. But I still dont' know how to crank a decent positive win-rate at this limit yet.

BUSB0Y said:

So I calculated, and for the rake I pay, I'm paying out at about 6bb/100 before my rakeback. I made a couple adjustments, maybe went on a heater too, and almost back to even, just a few buy-ins below 0 after almost 50k hands.

I can perhaps share how to not-lose, but also not win, lol. But I still dont' know how to crank a decent positive win-rate at this limit yet.

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LOL, I'm interested in what ever adjustments are +EV. I don't yet have access to Zoom but if and when it comes I want to be ready.

BUSB0Y said:

So I calculated, and for the rake I pay, I'm paying out at about 6bb/100 before my rakeback. I made a couple adjustments, maybe went on a heater too, and almost back to even, just a few buy-ins below 0 after almost 50k hands.

I can perhaps share how to not-lose, but also not win, lol. But I still dont' know how to crank a decent positive win-rate at this limit yet.

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Please post your graph/results, no matter how modest they are.

I've seem you in zoom a few times. After reading this thread I switched to 10nl 6max reg and have a high win rate, compared to a negative on on zoom!

It has to be beatable. I often seen players there with $80 stacks. I know a lot of them are 25nl regs too.

For fundiver's challenge, lol, not interested in playing 100k hands there if it's easier to play 25nl tho, so maybe we'll never know!

loafaBREAD said:

Please post your graph/results, no matter how modest they are.

I've seem you in zoom a few times. After reading this thread I switched to 10nl 6max reg and have a high win rate, compared to a negative on on zoom!

It has to be beatable. I often seen players there with $80 stacks. I know a lot of them are 25nl regs too.

For fundiver's challenge, lol, not interested in playing 100k hands there if it's easier to play 25nl tho, so maybe we'll never know!

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Below graph is for exclusively $10NL Blitz Hands played on America's Cardroom this year (2020).




One of my biggest leaks, which I'm sure we all have, but won't be evident on the graph, is that I like to smoke weed, and often I'll be high as **** and just donk away buy-ins. So if you're wondering how I can tank 500 big blinds within a few hundred hands, that can explain away a lot of it.

In the last few thousand hands, I haven't been smoking weed for 2-3 weeks AT ALL, just went on a cold turkey break, not necessarily for poker, but the correlation of a better graph is hard to ignore.

BUSB0Y said:

One of my biggest leaks, which I'm sure we all have, but won't be evident on the graph, is that I like to smoke weed, and often I'll be high as **** and just donk away buy-ins. So if you're wondering how I can tank 500 big blinds within a few hundred hands, that can explain away a lot of it.

In the last few thousand hands, I haven't been smoking weed for 2-3 weeks AT ALL, just went on a cold turkey break, not necessarily for poker, but the correlation of a better graph is hard to ignore.

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Dude, you are a beast! Awesome to see you improve!:icon_rr:

I'm sorry I didn't see this response sooner. That is cool man, you are doing well!

Haha I actually came here to post my own graph like I was hot sh**... I'll post it for this month (my only 10nlz winning month) just to prove that bums like me can pull ahead (inb4 small sample size, sun run... yea maybe, but it don't feel that way)

I have way less hands than you (and you are probably a better player) but yes, 10nlz on ACR is beatable, although it may be harder than 25nl.

And don't do drugs, mmmmkay?

That's why zoom more interesting and skilled

loafaBREAD said:

Dude, you are a beast! Awesome to see you improve!:icon_rr:

I'm sorry I didn't see this response sooner. That is cool man, you are doing well!

Haha I actually came here to post my own graph like I was hot sh**... I'll post it for this month (my only 10nlz winning month) just to prove that bums like me can pull ahead (inb4 small sample size, sun run... yea maybe, but it don't feel that way)

I have way less hands than you (and you are probably a better player) but yes, 10nlz on ACR is beatable, although it may be harder than 25nl.

And don't do drugs, mmmmkay?

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i'm beating $25NL, got bored so trying $50NL now (bomb pots)

fundiver199 said:

The thing is, you pay around 100$ in rake for 10.000 hands at 10NL Blitz. For that money you can have PokerSnowie for a year and train as much, as you want against the program. It will even tell you, when it think, you made a mistake. And you can also import actual hand histories for review.

Since you are essentially playing against unknowns in a fast forward game, its really not much different from playing against a computer, and the latter is a whole lot cheaper. You can also spend some of the money, you save, on a solver, if you want to take your game to the next level.

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I disagree.
You're playing against the player pool's tendancies.
fwiw I've played many hands in FastForward games (millions) & for people (including OP) to suggest it being readless (essentially against unknowns), etc. is very far from how it is. I personally have extensive notes and it doesn't take long to acquire. A few sessions and you'll have acquired a large number of hands vs. regs., can easily identify fish (including various types of fish) & can make adjustments & exploits accordingly.

I also think it's a decent practice ground. Regular tables feel soft by comparison. (so then shouldn't that be where we should always be playing then? ... not if you like playing FastForward tables, lol).

BUSB0Y said:

i'm beating $25NL, got bored so trying $50NL now (bomb pots)

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nice giraffe!

Get more data on these guys(regs),helped me a bit

Poker Orifice said:

nice giraffe!

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appreciate, i may stop playing so i can quit while ahead lololl