hey, i'm 9k. #3

OMGITSOVER9K said:

where did I say that? not questioning it but I don't bet then check my overpairs as a standard, I only thought about this this morning!

i'm betting turn with my air/FD's/nuts, i'm just wondering about balancing my bet flop/check turn line.

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From the previous hand where you checked the turn bet the river.

OMGITSOVER9K said:

if we have the best hand a lot and are betting to get him to fold the small mount of the time he has a random 6 or 3 etc, betting the river > betting the turn?

ony time he can make that call is when he puts us on specifically busted FD's and tbh here I have way more big pairs than FD's.

also grinding atm if anyone wants to sweat!

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thats a different hand?

in one i'm the 3bettor, in the other i'm being 3bet.

There's at least 2 streets of value here and probably a good size 3rd street if you're known for betting draws. In general you need to barrel here because obviously you're likely to be ahead and also for balance on the occasions where you're betting draws. I usually double barrel c/c most rivers in this spot unless there's history with the villain leading me toward another line.

yeah, i'm never taking this line 100% i'm normally just barreling my draws air and nut hands.

just figured balance against regs I have more hands could be good, also allows me to get exploited (floated) a lot less.. but yeah as I said, seems sexier to make this a bluff line since reg will never ever call off here.

maybe its FPS?

anyway, off back home from uni in like an hour or so (its snowing -.-) which means I have no xbox, so more hands online maybe some live.. i'll post something later today/tomorrow because i'm deffo grinding friday night!

my thoughts on the hand/ideas.

chill with the thought of balancing v regs. take exploitative lines, and if you notice them exploiting you in something then adjust your own exploitable tendency. people just honestly dont adjust nearly as much as we like to think, and they often do it wrong.

now, 9k told me on skype he is worried about 1010/JJ folding to a river barrel on a blank runout. if he is folding on a blank runout it means he is folding on A/K/spade runouts for sure so we should just barrel all of our air/missed overs/flush draws and expect him to fold everytihng bar sets and we instantly profit. (i dont think people are going to be folding 1010/JJ here often at all).

my c/j range on this board would likely be alot of combo draws and AKss/AQss etc. now if i noticed him exploiting us by bet/calling like 9x/7x on this board to our c/j then i would start to c/j overpairs and expect to get more value than by tripling because of our percieved range.

if we triple by default here then expect to get called down by 1010/JJ/and get two streets from some 9x and some flush draws.
if we bet/check/bet then we probably get calls from some 9x and some 7x on blank rivers. but we also allow passive players to check back their flush draws.
v someone agg who will bet/call their flush draws on the turn then yea b/c/b (with a c/j over turn bets) is good because we get it in v their draws and extract more from their floats and then get thin value on rivers from their sdv.

however that all requires alot more than that small hand sample to know which is better. and also requires some postflop dynamics and reads that we cant just assume.

i also suck at cash so may all be terrible

duggs said:

my thoughts on the hand/ideas.

chill with the thought of balancing v regs. take exploitative lines, and if you notice them exploiting you in something then adjust your own exploitable tendency. people just honestly dont adjust nearly as much as we like to think, and they often do it wrong.

now, 9k told me on skype he is worried about 1010/JJ folding to a river barrel on a blank runout. if he is folding on a blank runout it means he is folding on A/K/spade runouts for sure so we should just barrel all of our air/missed overs/flush draws and expect him to fold everytihng bar sets and we instantly profit. (i dont think people are going to be folding 1010/JJ here often at all).

my c/j range on this board would likely be alot of combo draws and AKss/AQss etc. now if i noticed him exploiting us by bet/calling like 9x/7x on this board to our c/j then i would start to c/j overpairs and expect to get more value than by tripling because of our percieved range.

if we triple by default here then expect to get called down by 1010/JJ/and get two streets from some 9x and some flush draws.
if we bet/check/bet then we probably get calls from some 9x and some 7x on blank rivers. but we also allow passive players to check back their flush draws.
v someone agg who will bet/call their flush draws on the turn then yea b/c/b (with a c/j over turn bets) is good because we get it in v their draws and extract more from their floats and then get thin value on rivers from their sdv.

however that all requires alot more than that small hand sample to know which is better. and also requires some postflop dynamics and reads that we cant just assume.

i also suck at cash so may all be terrible

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Stop disclaiming your comments

post feedback other than that scourrgge

duggs said:

post feedback other than that scourrgge

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^^^

You seem do be tring to over complicate things.
Double barrel the turn c/c any non Ax/spade river. If you feel you need to balance your turn bet in this spot you probably should be looking for another table.

JOEBOB69 said:

You seem do be tring to over complicate things.
Double barrel the turn c/c any non Ax/spade river. If you feel you need to balance your turn bet in this spot you probably should be looking for another table.

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why do you want to bet bet c/c?

To induce false value bets from TT,JJ and from busted draws etc.
That would not call a 3rd barrel.

does that really happen? i cant understand 1010/JJ calling two and folding to a river bet? or calling two and value betting. surely it calls 3 or calls 2 and checks back unless it thinks it gets value from A high?
isnt it generally bad to call two on runouts like this?

if you tell me it happens ill believe you but i think 1010/JJ call river bet freq>1010/JJ bet river freq. I also think draws are a pretty small part of his range when they dont raise flop/turn. there will also have like an SPR of one on the river so wouldnt his draws jam the turn on us if we have any air in our percieved range. like when he has draws on the river i expect them to check back given our line until then.

To start with i'm going off the assumption ever one is bad untill proven other wise.
The only thing i have to go with villains line of thinking, is my past history when i wasn't very good. When i started off playing if i was villain here an had JJ an it was checked to me on the river i wouldn't think what worse calls here? My line of thinking would be i got the best hand BET!!
Or if i would of had a draw i would of seen this as a opportunity to bluff.
Either way, until proven villain knows wtf he is doing it is the line i would take.

JOEBOB69 said:

To start with i'm going off the assumption ever one is bad untill proven other wise.
The only thing i have to go with villains line of thinking, is my past history when i wasn't very good. When i started off playing if i was villain here an had JJ an it was checked to me on the river i wouldn't think what worse calls here? My line of thinking would be i got the best hand BET!!
Or if i would of had a draw i would of seen this as a opportunity to bluff.
Either way, until proven villain knows wtf he is doing it is the line i would take.

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I'm just going to bet/bet/bet.

WVHillbilly said:

I'm just going to bet/bet/bet.

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Yeah you would,that's the reason your red line was like OMG obv burn because of the shity blue line . An it might be the best line to be honest i don't know. I just lean towards b/b/cc.

duggs said:

post feedback other than that scourrgge

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Then spell my name right!!

But uh, yeah, I'm kinda subbed to way too many of the cash threads and can't really keep up with all the hands, plus typically everyone who comments is better than me so I rarely have anything helpful to input. I will try be better though.

I love poker on saturdays.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $19.50 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
CO: $64.29 (VPIP: 65.63, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 32)
BTN: $52.64 (VPIP: 10.81, PFR: 10.81, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 37)
SB: $50.00 (VPIP: 18.15, PFR: 11.66, 3Bet Preflop: 3.83, Hands: 843)
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $67.53 (VPIP: 39.53, PFR: 32.56, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 46)

SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has K:diamond: K:spade:

UTG raises to $1.50, fold, CO calls $1.50, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.00, UTG calls $4.50, fold

Flop: ($13.75, 2 players) 6:heart: 9:diamond: 2:diamond:
Hero bets $8.00, UTG calls $8.00

Turn: ($29.75, 2 players) 3:diamond:
Hero checks, UTG bets $14.25, Hero raises to $36.00 and is all-in, UTG calls $21.75

River: ($101.75, 2 players) 8:diamond:

Hero shows K:diamond: K:spade: (Flush, King High) (Pre 77%, Flop 77%, Turn 20%)
UTG shows 5:heart: 4:heart: (Straight, Six High) (Pre 23%, Flop 23%, Turn 80%)
Hero wins $99.25

best action here?

UTG is a whale, (same UTG from hand above) SB is a 18/12 with a 3b of 3.. but he saw the KK hand so his range could be wider here.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $60.37 (VPIP: 22.84, PFR: 18.52, 3Bet Preflop: 8.45, Hands: 164)
CO: $49.09 (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 33)
BTN: $60.08 (VPIP: 10.53, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 38)
SB: $50.00 (VPIP: 18.13, PFR: 11.64, 3Bet Preflop: 3.83, Hands: 844)
Hero (BB): $105.21
UTG: $67.35 (VPIP: 40.91, PFR: 34.09, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 47)

SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has Q:heart: Q:club:

UTG raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $5.50, Hero?

Call

Yah I saw this hand in skype and wasn't sure, but I don't think cold 4betting makes sense because I don't think the fish continues wide enough. Whereas if the fish calls the 3bet and we go 3way to a flop, I expect the SB to play relatively fit-or-fold?

hackmeplz said:

Call

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Is this considered set mining with queens?

atlantafalcons0 said:

Is this considered set mining with queens?

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Yeah i don't get if we are tring to set mine,or just tring to keep the fish in.
What do we do when the flop comes T high and SB pots it?

JOEBOB69 said:

Yeah i don't get if we are tring to set mine,or just tring to keep the fish in.
What do we do when the flop comes T high and SB pots it?

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SB is likely never potting it in a 3way, 3bet pot. But I'm prob not folding to one barrel.

Scourrge said:

SB is likely never potting it in a 3way, 3bet pot. But I'm prob not folding to one barrel.

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So on a flop of all under cards you think queens are good here?

Why not 4 bet preflop then?

atlantafalcons0 said:

So on a flop of all under cards you think queens are good here?

Why not 4 bet preflop then?

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As I already said I want to keep the fish's weaker range (that he will make substantial mistakes postflop with) in. I'm not saying I think queens are ALWAYS good, but I'm not folding to one barrel I don't think. I haven't tried to run any math though.