hey, i'm 9k. #3

[Cafeman]

Calling flop is fine imo, since SB is so wide in this spot that we should be able to take it away at some point - and that's not even counting our binkage possibilities.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Calling flop is fine imo, since SB is so wide in this spot that we should be able to take it away at some point.

Well in that case shouldn't we be betting the turn???

 

[Cafeman]

Interesting and I'm not sure. I do know that vs stabby regs I'm x/r the turn with all my value hands. Still deep in thunk about this. But I feel as though we probably have as much FE on river + more info.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Interesting and I'm not sure. I do know that vs stabby regs I'm x/r the turn with all my value hands. Still deep in thunk about this. But I feel as though we probably have as much FE on river + more info.

Can't c/r since we're IP and after he checks turn and river it's pretty safe to assume we have the best hand so I can't see any reason to bet the river.

 

[Cafeman]

Can't c/r since we're IP and after he checks turn and river it's pretty safe to assume we have the best hand so I can't see any reason to bet the river.

I was talking about as villain. As in yet another reason for us to perhaps not make a stab on the turn.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Calling flop is fine imo, since SB is so wide in this spot that we should be able to take it away at some point - and that's not even counting our binkage possibilities.

Interesting and I'm not sure. I do know that vs stabby regs I'm x/r the turn with all my value hands. Still deep in thunk about this. But I feel as though we probably have as much FE on river + more info.

It must be just me but it seems to be a no brainer; if you plan on calling IP on that flop with A,Q the only option is to bet the turn/rivers when it's checked to you and be pretty confident you're always going to take it down by the river nearly everytime. Villian has always got over cards in this spot & the slim times villian has a small piece of the board, he folds every time and there's like no chance of him floating OP with A,K for example unless he has some clubs but even then I think he'd play more aggressively than a x/c line.

 

[Cafeman]

But yes, as I originally said, we have the best hand a lot, so if we are going to try to fold out AK almost specifically, we only need to make it small. It's like say we have the best hand 90% of the time, but he can't call a bet with 100% of his range, then betting is good. Just doesn't need to be as big.

 

[RamdeeBen]

But yes, as I originally said, we have the best hand a lot, so if we are going to try to fold out AK almost specifically, we only need to make it small. It's like say we have the best hand 90% of the time, but he can't call a bet with 100% of his range, then betting is good. Just doesn't need to be as big.

There's going to be times he has a weak part of the board that wants to get down to show down cheaply. Sure we have SD equity but I think an aggressive line is going to yield a better result than a passive line on this board.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

if we have the best hand a lot and are betting to get him to fold the small mount of the time he has a random 6 or 3 etc, betting the river > betting the turn?

ony time he can make that call is when he puts us on specifically busted FD's and tbh here I have way more big pairs than FD's.

also grinding atm if anyone wants to sweat!

 

[WVHillbilly]

if we have the best hand a lot and are betting to get him to fold the small mount of the time he has a random 6 or 3 etc, betting the river > betting the turn?

ony time he can make that call is when he puts us on specifically busted FD's and tbh here I have way more big pairs than FD's.

also grinding atm if anyone wants to sweat!

Disagree with the bolded. Your flat of the 3bet preflop combined with your turn check basically means you never have big pairs. I'd call your river bet with any TP hand every time. I'd be hard pressed to fold AK tbh.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

Disagree with the bolded. Your flat of the 3bet preflop combined with your turn check basically means you never have big pairs. I'd call your river bet with any TP hand every time. I'd be hard pressed to fold AK tbh.

well I do in this spot, so you'd be getting value owned a lot tbh.

 

[WVHillbilly]

well I do in this spot, so you'd be getting value owned a lot tbh.

Then you're missing out on a ton of value from the fish who are going to ch/call the turn with all their draws but will fold the river when they miss. The way you played that hand would have to be the worst line ever for a big pair. Actually I'd say AQ should be the very top of your range for the way you played the hand through the river bet since I'm assuming you'd check back AK?

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

but this is vs a reg so its different clearly? I don't see how its the worst line really vs a reg who's never really x/cing with worse OTT since his 3betting range is like JJ+ AQ+ and bluffs which make pairs on this board.

if i'm villain and hero bets the turn i'm x/ring sometimes since he never has a 5 in his 3bet flatting range.

I hate being blown off my hand (if I had one) so betting the turn makes no sense instead of betting the river + most of his range x/f rivers just as much as turns and we can rep a wider range imo.

I probably bet AK as well OTR..

explain why this is the worst line ever with a big pair, except that I miss value vs a fish (when i'm playing a reg).

 

[WVHillbilly]

You said he was 30/22 with a 10% 3bet so not really a good reg here. He'll have plenty of draws to get value from with a turn bet.

What exactly are you trying to get him to fold when you bet the river with AK? I mean the argument for betting AQ here is that he might fold AK so betting AK seems pointless.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

bad reg, never said he was good.. just means that he uses reggish ranges pre except he's wider than normal.

I don't think any regs at my limits are x/cing draws here.. > barreling them since I never have a 5 but they have some 5's in their range.

yeah I get that betting AQ folds out AK and then a bunch of other marginal stuff.. betting AK gets folds from the marginal stuff as well, which is my reason for betting with AK there.

 

[WVHillbilly]

You're gonna need to better define a bunch of marginal stuff cause I don't see it. You really think he folds say 67s on the river?

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

67s/A3s stuff like that, yeah.

what do I play like this, floats and busted FD's?

FD's are more likely to bet the turn and if I have complete air with no SD then i'm bettting the turn too.. so x/c x/x bet river is surely always a thin value hand?

 

[WVHillbilly]

67s/A3s stuff like that, yeah.

what do I play like this, floats and busted FD's?

FD's are more likely to bet the turn and if I have complete air with no SD then i'm bettting the turn too.. so x/c x/x bet river is surely always a thin value hand?

I think FDs check back on the turn quite often actually.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

I think that he thinks that I would bet the turn with FD's almost 100% though.

if it was say AQs with the FD i'm more likely to check than a J high FD obv.. so I think I bet my FD's OTT a fair amount.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

this post is just me trying to articulate my thoughts on an afternoon.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $12.05 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 10.42, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 49)
CO: $25.00 (VPIP: 16.94, PFR: 10.93, 3Bet Preflop: 1.45, Hands: 187)
BTN: $28.75 (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 3.23, Hands: 90)
Hero (SB): $34.54
BB: $20.00 (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
UTG: $15.56 (VPIP: 25.86, PFR: 6.90, 3Bet Preflop: 3.33, Hands: 63)

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q:club: Q:spade:

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.62, Hero raises to $2.00, fold, BTN calls $1.38

Flop: ($4.25, 2 players) 2:spade: 9:club: 4:spade:
Hero bets $2.50, BTN calls $2.50

Turn: ($9.25, 2 players) 7:diamond:
Hero?

yeah, here's a spot I’m finding myself in a fair bit.. the standard line here is bet, bet, bet, but I feel like a lot of regs are going to fold turns/rivers a lot to this line and so I miss out on value.

other lines I could take are bet, x/j or bet, x/c, x/c.

bet x/c x/c relies a lot on villains barrelling/value betting here with worse (mainly TT/JJ) this probably works for one street but most regs are going to check rivers back with anything with decent SDV and a lot of their air since its hard for me to take this line with anything that will fold to a river barrel.

this isn’t bad since 2 streets of value in a 3bet pot is a decent amount (in the example above if I x/c turn the pot is around 80bbs) but..

we also need to consider the fact that bad rivers could come (primarily A/K) and improve villains to the best hand or give villains something to bluff shove at. so bet x/c x/c leaves us in some tough spots on rivers where we can’t get value from worse too often and in the case that a ‘scare card’ comes we’ll be playing guessing games for stacks.

bet x/j appeals the most to me since it allows us to be balanced in this spot in the future, when we bet flops and check turns we aren’t always giving up on the pot which means regs will be more wary of floating us and stabbing turns 100%. we get value from villains floats, some of our semi-bluffs can take this line and we don't have to see rivers which is my main problem with b x/c x/c.

I guess it comes down to how often regs are bet/calling the turn with worse.

thoughts?

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

now I think about it b x/j is probably better to use as a bluff/semi-bluff? seems like we're risking 100bbs a lot but regs are going to b/f this turn with everything worse than QQ+ so taking this line with a value hand is probably too thin. (if regs adjust or bet/call we readjust, easy game)

also bluffing with this line over bet/bet/bet stops me having to triple a lot of my air in these spots since villains will call down 2 streets most of the time with weak hands and check back rivers IP (which kinda ruins cbetting/doubling).

disclaimer - i'm never taking one of these lines 100% its situation + villain specific, this is mainly for balancing purposes.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Lol at balancing a turn line against someone you have 90 hands on!

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

this is for all regs, not this reg in particular.. figured that was kinda obv.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Seems like your turn betting range isn't balanced at all if you start checking with overpairs (as you have said you do often) considering you also said you'd be betting the turn with your air and FDs.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

where did I say that? not questioning it but I don't bet then check my overpairs as a standard, I only thought about this this morning!

i'm betting turn with my air/FD's/nuts, i'm just wondering about balancing my bet flop/check turn line.