hey, i'm 9k. #3

RamdeeBen · Feb 26, 2013

lol @ op clearly a fish on a heater.

GL ^^

The Messiah · Feb 26, 2013

How many tables do you play, your red-line is quite steep, could be the cause...

GL btw

RamdeeBen · Feb 26, 2013

DunningKruger said:
That red line would make a baby cry, but ehh more than one way to skin a cat I suppose. gl to you and I'll be keeping an eye on this topic for updates.

Your goal is certainly ambitious... but possible.

How many tables do you typically play. I'm not sure why you mix FR and 6max. Also, do you play any Zoom.

Not another red line dummy surely?

Also' you post a graph with 2k hand sample size..I mean..you can get a positive red line with 2nl over 2k hands.

I agree with 9k...red line is irrelevant imo at micros..and certainly value towning them is always going to be better rather than trying to get fish to fold their marginal hands.

DunningKruger · Feb 26, 2013

Heh. Your reply might have been a little different had you read the post that you're responding to. Lighten up broski.

ramdeebam said:
value towning them is always going to be better rather than trying to get fish to fold their marginal hands.

My advice here would be not to treat those two things as being mutually exclusive. I said nothing to imply that you shouldn't bet relentlessly for value, nor am I much inclined to oblige you on an argument about why winning money prior to showdown is somehow any more or less relevant than winning money after a showdown. You seem to equate red line as bluffing so explaining this would probably prove to be more trouble than it's worth.

RamdeeBen · Feb 26, 2013

DunningKruger said:
Heh. Your reply might have been a little different had you read the post that you're responding to. Lighten up broski.

My advice here would be not to treat those two things as being mutually exclusive. I said nothing to imply that you shouldn't bet relentlessly for value, nor am I much inclined to oblige you on an argument about why winning money prior to showdown is somehow any more or less relevant than winning money after a showdown. You seem to equate red line as bluffing so explaining this would probably prove to be more trouble than it's worth.

Not at all.

However; at micros..the fold to call ratio is much less than say low/mid stakes and the average player is much worse at the micros therefore showdown winnings will always be a more profitable expectation than none showdown winnings.

OMGITSOVER9K · Feb 26, 2013

Ram, your first post came off a bit aggro.

DK (Donkey Kong from now on), no need to take that 'you're not going to listen, so I'm not going to waste my time with you' response with Ram, he's he to learn and debate just like the rest of us.

I have my opinions on this but I'm too tired to go into detail on it and i probably don't have anything groundbreaking either.

DunningKruger · Feb 26, 2013

ramdeebam said:
showdown winnings will always be a more profitable expectation than none showdown winnings.

What I believe you're saying here is something I already stated myself in this topic (minus the always part), so yes, ofc I agree with it.

DunningKruger said:
Your blue line will likely be higher (often much higher)

RamdeeBen · Feb 26, 2013

Yeah my first post did come across as aggro - apologies.

To be fair; I didn't read every comment in the thread, I just saw DK post this small sample size graph which came across as if you was stating how a redline is/should be possible in the micros and whilst it might be true we both have different opinions on micro showdown/non showdown winnings which is cool there's nothing wrong with that.

I think if you had posted like, a 100k hand sample micro limits size showing a positive red line then I wouldn't of been as abrupt. I just felt a 2.5k hand sample graph was quite irrelevant to your argument and it kinda came across as a bit "look, positive red line at micros see!" but feel it doesn't really mean all that much even if it was 2nl.

Anyway, sorry if I offended you

Let the debate continue.

micromachine · Feb 26, 2013

Hey 9k welcome to Cardschat.

Why you considering moving sites may I ask?

Good luck

Lucothefish · Feb 26, 2013

Welcome to CC 9K, hope to see more of you (unless you're a freetroll)!

Why is the lady in your avatar hungry enough to eat her sweater?

Cafeman · Feb 26, 2013

When I first saw your graph I thought, WTF, someone who posts on CC and is a winning player... what that's about?!

Secondly I thought, your redline might be a bit steep, and as you go forward improving as a player you'll no doubt be finding more and more spots where you can remove some of your redline 'losses'.

OMGITSOVER9K · Feb 26, 2013

^ this was my general thought process.. gonna work on it, never really tried except in really obv spots which probably makes me exploitable.

Micro, the games on other sites are a lot softer than PS so softer games = more money.

Luco, she's hot it doesn't matter

micromachine · Feb 26, 2013

Yeah I'm thinking of trying a new site for a bit too, maybe an iPoker site or 888, what are you thinking?

Cafeman · Feb 26, 2013

micromachine said:
Yeah I'm thinking of trying a new site for a bit too, maybe an iPoker site or 888, what are you thinking?

ipoker is too reg infested tbh, unless your idea of fun is just stealing blinds and exchanging coolers?

micromachine · Feb 26, 2013

But you play there now don't you?

Cafeman · Feb 26, 2013

micromachine said:
But you play there now don't you?

Shhhh, that's top secret.

acky100 · Feb 26, 2013

my red line is steeper than yours

WVHillbilly · Feb 26, 2013

acky100 said:
my red line is steeper than yours

Mine too. Just in the opposite direction.

acky100 · Feb 26, 2013

shh you, im making it cool to have steep negative red lines!

in 2014 all the kids will be like omg i want a graph like ackys! did you see how much of a cliff his redline was!

Lucothefish · Feb 26, 2013

WVHillbilly said:
Mine too. Just in the opposite direction.

...from right to left?

WVHillbilly · Feb 26, 2013

Lucothefish said:
...from right to left?

Yes I play all hands in reverse too. Makes it easier to see the full board before I decide if I want to put any money in preflop.

Lucothefish · Feb 26, 2013

WVHillbilly said:
Yes I play all hands in reverse too. Makes it easier to see the full board before I decide if I want to put any money in preflop.

WP lol

AlwaysPlanAhe · Feb 26, 2013

WVHillbilly said:
Yes I play all hands in reverse too. Makes it easier to see the full board before I decide if I want to put any money in preflop.

Hah, brilliant.

DunningKruger · Feb 26, 2013

ramdeebam said:
Yeah my first post did come across as aggro - apologies.

To be fair; I didn't read every comment in the thread, I just saw DK post this small sample size graph which came across as if you was stating how a redline is/should be possible in the micros and whilst it might be true we both have different opinions on micro showdown/non showdown winnings which is cool there's nothing wrong with that.

I think if you had posted like, a 100k hand sample micro limits size showing a positive red line then I wouldn't of been as abrupt. I just felt a 2.5k hand sample graph was quite irrelevant to your argument and it kinda came across as a bit "look, positive red line at micros see!" but feel it doesn't really mean all that much even if it was 2nl.

Anyway, sorry if I offended you

Let the debate continue.

There was no argument. And yes the sample is lol small like I said in the post. It was more a curiosity thing based on one of the OP's remarks than to try and start a debate. I don't get much volume in at the micro limits and if calling me a dummy was an effort to bait me into wasting my time playing several weeks of 50NL simply to demonstrate that a halfway decent red (AND blue) line is in fact possible, then I have to apologize sir but your scheme has failed

.

Not that I should even need to, as I believe it's something most players realize already (~someone~ has to win those pots that don't go to showdown). Anyway, I'm not going to derail OP's topic any further since apparently I'm not allowed to post more than 10 times in a 24 hour period. Guess my motto for the time being will be quality over quantity. Heh. That could be a problem.

Matt Vaughan · Feb 26, 2013

In for lolz and learning.

hey, i'm 9k. #3

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