Moving on up, Cash Game Thread

[MinhANguyen]

Haha how do you table select? I just do two Zone and two cash. I don't even look for avg sized pot or players per flop. I just make sure that there are no short stacks. But if there is one, I make sure I'm to his left and have position on him. Short stacks are so frustrating to play against, and it's hard to tell if they just feel committed or if they're spazzing out. Also, they generally limp/call too much, making it harder to steal and isolate.

 

[akaRobbo]

Been lurking the last two days (I'm on 2p2 now since the activity on CC dried up a lot) and just wanna say nice thread OP. You seem solid and to be on a nice (heater?) which is nice, or Bovada is just soft as shite compared to the reg infested stars I've spent too long on.
Haven't been playing as much recently due to moving irl, bills, Xmas and less free time etc but will 100% be moving off stars and grinding soon in the new year. Any input onto sites to go to? Don't mean to derail this juicy thread xoxo

 

[rlzaleski]

You are convincing me I'm going to have to fund a few more accounts... guess I know what I'm getting for Christmas

 

[bitowl]

Are you ever outright folding to turn 3bet?

To some villians, yes. Could be a leak of mine though, I fold bottom set sometimes.

Raise folding might seem stupid because it feels similar to 'raising for information' but with that turn raise you really just want calls from his top pair & pair + draws. When he 3bets you putting in 2/3 his stack, he's telling you a different story than top pair or pair+draw imo. Its like raising the river with a 5 high flush for value vs bluff catchers then getting jammed on.

This villian seemed like a nut though so maybe you can put more random hands and TPGK so u have to get it in, also some possibility he folds even getting crazy odds because he's a clown.

 

[bitowl]

No rb or anything though and I hear higher rake then most sites.

This kind of sounds like a deal breaker to me. I think rake is usually like 10bb/100 at microstakes. You have to completely crush but I guess with 4 tables and table selection you can just target the guys giving away stacks.

 

[IPlay]

Haha how do you table select? I just do two Zone and two cash. I don't even look for avg sized pot or players per flop. I just make sure that there are no short stacks. But if there is one, I make sure I'm to his left and have position on him. Short stacks are so frustrating to play against, and it's hard to tell if they just feel committed or if they're spazzing out. Also, they generally limp/call too much, making it harder to steal and isolate.

If there is not atleast one fish with a 80bb+ stack to my right, I am looking for another table. Unless of course the whole table is fishy. I love the shorties man, free money when they get it in with TPNK or jam preflop with KJo. Also, I have skipped 10NL quite a bit on Bovada because rake is still high and the player pool is made up of people that can beat 5NL but not rolled for 25NL so its actually nittier imo. Always fish a plenty on Bovada though.

Been lurking the last two days (I'm on 2p2 now since the activity on CC dried up a lot) and just wanna say nice thread OP. You seem solid and to be on a nice (heater?) which is nice, or Bovada is just soft as shite compared to the reg infested stars I've spent too long on.
Haven't been playing as much recently due to moving irl, bills, Xmas and less free time etc but will 100% be moving off stars and grinding soon in the new year. Any input onto sites to go to? Don't mean to derail this juicy thread xoxo

For sure on a little heater and it really helps that people pay off with basically nothing.

You are convincing me I'm going to have to fund a few more accounts... guess I know what I'm getting for Christmas

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

This kind of sounds like a deal breaker to me. I think rake is usually like 10bb/100 at microstakes. You have to completely crush but I guess with 4 tables and table selection you can just target the guys giving away stacks.

20k 5NL hands, 15bb/100 rake.

5k 10NL hands 14bb/100 rake.

30k hands at 25NL 11.5bb/100 rake

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 92 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 33)
Hero (CO): 104.9 BB
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
SB: 68 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
BB: 96.6 BB (VPIP: 10.26, PFR: 7.89, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 40)
UTG: 117.7 BB (VPIP: 34.78, PFR: 30.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:heart: T:diamond:

UTG raises to 2 BB, MP raises to 7.5 BB, Hero calls 7.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (18.5 BB, 2 players) 8:spade: 9:spade: Q:club:
MP bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB

Turn: (38.5 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond:
MP bets 22 BB, Hero calls 22 BB

River: (82.5 BB, 2 players) J:diamond:
MP raises to 52.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 52.5 BB

Felt like I was lost on all 3 streets here. Thought about turning my hand into a bluff on the turn but do I really have AQ here? I thought his line was suspect/scared on the turn.

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 68.4 BB (VPIP: 51.85, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 14.81, Hands: 54)
BTN: 70.4 BB (VPIP: 70.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 10)
SB: 96 BB (VPIP: 41.86, PFR: 32.56, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 44)
Hero (BB): 168.3 BB
UTG: 116.6 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 16.07, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)
MP: 83.4 BB (VPIP: 16.07, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:diamond: Q:diamond:

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) Q:heart: 6:club: J:diamond:
Hero checks, MP bets 4.7 BB, fold, Hero calls 4.7 BB

Turn: (18.9 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:
Hero checks, MP bets 10.4 BB, fold,

Standard against a nit? He was 1/3 on cbets, no 3bets, 1AF. For sure a call pre with the fish in there, ever squeezing preflop?

 

[xdeucesx]

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 68.4 BB (VPIP: 51.85, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 14.81, Hands: 54)
BTN: 70.4 BB (VPIP: 70.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 10)
SB: 96 BB (VPIP: 41.86, PFR: 32.56, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 44)
Hero (BB): 168.3 BB
UTG: 116.6 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 16.07, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)
MP: 83.4 BB (VPIP: 16.07, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K<font color='red'>♦</font> Q<font color='red'>♦</font>

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) Q<font color='red'>♥</font> 6<font color='black'>♣</font> J<font color='red'>♦</font>
Hero checks, MP bets 4.7 BB, fold, Hero calls 4.7 BB

Turn: (18.9 BB, 2 players) 2<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, MP bets 10.4 BB, fold,

Standard against a nit? He was 1/3 on cbets, no 3bets, 1AF. For sure a call pre with the fish in there, ever squeezing preflop?

Fold pre if we are going to play it this way. Can always 3b pre, but I'm not a huge fan of 3betting nits in general. Either way, I dont like flatting and making top pair here, yet still folding to a double barrel. OOP v a nit, I'm just releasing pre here.

 

[IPlay]

Is the fish relevant to calling pre? I am getting 3 to 1 with a fish in the pot and a hand that plays good multiway.

Oh, and having a great session today and am over the $250 mark so I am adding in some 25NL tables. Lost a buy in first 15 hands though :/ AA>KK

wish me luck

 

[akaRobbo]

Folding KQdd pre there is ridiculous.

Turn fold looks tight but probably correct v nit.

TT: Don't think folding is good OTT, starting to hate life when he bets again though. River confirms hating life but we just can't fold. Undodgable here I think, he's probably boated Jacks OTR or holds 99. Doubt AQ bets river like that l

 

[IPlay]

Folding KQdd pre there is ridiculous.

Turn fold looks tight but probably correct v nit.

TT: Don't think folding is good OTT, starting to hate life when he bets again though. River confirms hating life but we just can't fold. Undodgable here I think, he's probably boated Jacks OTR or holds 99. Doubt AQ bets river like that l

I agree with the KQ folding pre is a little tight, if no fish in the pot, then folding is probably correct.

TT: He showed up with AsQs, I hated every street though.

Lol @ this session too, started off amazing. Ended terribly. Ran about 6 buy ins under EV over 800 hands. Got crushed at 25NL and definitely didn't play my A game because of some tilt.

I actually won today with 31.3bb/100(91.55bb/100 All in adjusted, lmao) but lost two buy ins at 25NL so I am down currency.

Lost $14.05, bankroll: $210.79 looks like I am back to 10NL for the time being. 1 shot at 25NL down.

 

[xdeucesx]

Oops my bad, read it too quickly. I didn't see anyone else in the hand, looks fine to me then as played.

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 196.3 BB (VPIP: 28.30, PFR: 7.55, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 53)
Hero (SB): 193.5 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 191 BB (VPIP: 33.96, PFR: 32.08, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 53)
MP: 30.8 BB (VPIP: 53.85, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
CO: 178.5 BB (VPIP: 8.00, PFR: 4.00, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 25)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9:diamond: 9:club:

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 8.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 15 BB, Hero calls 6.5 BB

Flop: (31 BB, 2 players) 8:club: J:club: 5:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (31 BB, 2 players) 7:heart:
Hero checks, BTN bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB

River: (51 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets 35.3 BB Hero ???

What do you think when a fish takes this line?

 

[IPlay]

Kind of tired, got in a short 500< hand session and lost about a buy in. Going to get some good sleep tonight so I can get a long session in tomorrow night.

BR: $199.07

 

[bitowl]

Is the fish relevant to calling pre?

yea, a stationy fish helps your odds a ton. A lot of value in beating their weird bottom 2 pair type hands for full stacks.

 

[bitowl]

Don't fold QK on the turn there unless you absolutely know he doesn't double barrel AK or ATs there and doesn't even open QJ. 56 hands really isn't enough to call someone a nit imo. Plus you still have equity vs AA/KK/AQ and you'll probably get another street of value if you hit.

 

[MinhANguyen]

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 196.3 BB (VPIP: 28.30, PFR: 7.55, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 53)
Hero (SB): 193.5 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 191 BB (VPIP: 33.96, PFR: 32.08, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 53)
MP: 30.8 BB (VPIP: 53.85, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
CO: 178.5 BB (VPIP: 8.00, PFR: 4.00, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 25)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9<font color='red'>♦</font> 9<font color='black'>♣</font>

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 8.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 15 BB, Hero calls 6.5 BB

Flop: (31 BB, 2 players) 8<font color='black'>♣</font> J<font color='black'>♣</font> 5<font color='red'>♦</font>
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (31 BB, 2 players) 7<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, BTN bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB

River: (51 BB, 2 players) 8<font color='black'>♠</font>
Hero checks, BTN bets 35.3 BB Hero ???

What do you think when a fish takes this line?

Why are you 3-betting a nit? He has a 7% PFR. Probably good to set-mine here or bluff-catch with 99. I think he may have a big hand here, and was slowplaying it. A lot of fish bet small on the flop/turn, and then bomb the next street with a monster. I think if fish wanted to bluff, they'd probably bet bigger on the initial street, and either bomb the next street again or give up.

 

[IPlay]

Umm, he opened on the button. 3 betting all day here usually. He is tight but I dont like flatting because overs are coming often and ill fold the best hand a lot post flop+ im way ahead of his range here. If anything stacj sizes might be more of a factor of 3betting or flatting pre.

 

[IPlay]

The dream, hopefully $70 10NL pot coming up with player 6 over there(Spoiler, he coolered me with A high flush>K high flush and got 60bbs from me ;(, I almost folded that too but I couldn't)

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 107.3 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
CO: 128.2 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
Hero (BTN): 122.5 BB
SB: 108.7 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 22.22, Hands: 19)
BB: 256.3 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 23.81, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
UTG: 69.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, UTG posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has 9:heart: 9:club:

UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, CO raises to 8 BB, Hero calls 8 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB

Flop: (25.5 BB, 3 players) 6:spade: K:heart: 4:club:
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (25.5 BB, 3 players) 9:spade:
UTG checks, CO bets 13 BB, Hero raises to 28.5 BB, fold, CO raises to 52 BB, Hero calls 23.5 BB

River: (129.5 BB, 2 players) 5:spade:
CO checks, Hero checks

CO shows K:diamond: K:club: (Three of a Kind, Kings)

CO wins 123.1 BB


If ever a spot I thought about folding a set it is on the turn here, felt like I couldn't though. Thankfully river slowed him down

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 202.92 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 23.53, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 17)
UTG: 77.2 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
CO: 63.56 BB (VPIP: 29.41, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BTN: 90.12 BB (VPIP: 41.18, PFR: 41.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
Hero (SB): 100.4 BB

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:diamond: J:heart:

UTG raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9.2 BB, fold, Hero ???

I'm starting to wonder, in this thread should I post line checks with all actions and no results, or leave the decision as ??? for discussion? Starting to think to just post line checks

 

[ConDeck]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 202.92 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 23.53, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 17)
UTG: 77.2 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
CO: 63.56 BB (VPIP: 29.41, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BTN: 90.12 BB (VPIP: 41.18, PFR: 41.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
Hero (SB): 100.4 BB

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J<font color='red'>♦</font> J<font color='red'>♥</font>

UTG raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9.2 BB, fold, Hero ???

I'm starting to wonder, in this thread should I post line checks with all actions and no results, or leave the decision as ??? for discussion? Starting to think to just post line checks

Tough spot... Theres an argument for folding, calling and 4b here...

Even given the lack of stats, given the stack size of UTG we can assume he is a fish/recreational player so can apply the general tendencies of those players to him, even though he seems to have played pretty tight so far. The CO also has a smaller stack size, meaning we can apply these tendencies here also although he is playing looser, but with a decent range.

So due to the fact we are against 2 recreational players here, I would probably cross folding off the list.

As for 4b, I would be more comfortable with this if I knew CO were a reg, as he can be isolating the UTG fish pretty wide, and our 4b looks super strong, so is getting folds often. 4b here though is still an option as we can be ahead often of there calling/shoving range, or at least flipping as there is a good chance of the fish over valuing hands like AQ, AJ or even doing something stupid with KQ 99,TT etc. If we do 4b, with 70bb effective stacks we would be forced to call off to a shove.

As for flat calling, we are still ahead of both ranges often, and we almost guarantee the UTG fish is calling here also so we get great implied odds. We can also be pretty confident our postflop and hand reading edge is going to be significant here even being OOP.

So all things considered, I would say folding is obviously neutral EV, flatting is EV+ and 4b is most probably also EV+ although much higher variance. I would be using information/notes gained from previous pots they had been involved in, particularly the CO, to influence my decision here also.

I think flatting offers the most EV+ decision here and I would choose to flat given the dynamic and player types.

What was your opinion on the spot and how did the hand play out?

 

[IPlay]

I folded because flatting OOP just seemed so meh, and 4 betting worse. I was thinking about a couple things.

UTG bought in short and folded his first 10 hands so he seems like scared money and his first raise is UTG. I think he is going to be repopping/shipping it often when I flat.

If he doesn't, we have a SPR of 2 so I am going broke on a lot of flops that come under 10 high because if I am flatting to set mine, I should just fold.

and 4 betting here was never really an option to me.

 

[ConDeck]

I folded because flatting OOP just seemed so meh, and 4 betting worse. I was thinking about a couple things.

UTG bought in short and folded his first 10 hands so he seems like scared money and his first raise is UTG. I think he is going to be repopping/shipping it often when I flat.

If he doesn't, we have a SPR of 2 so I am going broke on a lot of flops that come under 10 high because if I am flatting to set mine, I should just fold.

and 4 betting here was never really an option to me.

Your not flatting to set mine here when you flat, if that is the only reason then yes you are not getting the odds to call... it gives you extra outs when your behind, but this is not why you are flatting. Both players are the type to make significant mistakes postflop and I think you are giving them a range that is far too tight (top 1% of hands).

As for 4betting, the UTG player type your describing is exactly the type that would go with hands like 77+ AJ+ here with the well I need to double up mindset so we have a decent equity edge here or fold everything but AA/KK . CO fish probably the same range here, either as wide in these spots too which gives us like 45% equity getting 2:1 on our money or AA/KK only in which case we profit from fold equity alone... As I said though this is a higher variance approach.

I should add, against regs putting you in bad spots and to tough decisions, totally agree with the fold. Exploiting fish though is how we make the majority of our money in this game and I feel like given the little information we have and general tendencies of this player type we are profitable here...

 

[IPlay]

Yeah I agree, it was a nitty fold. I don't mind dodging the variance right now though, but I won't be passing it up in the future

Had an awesome session tonight. 500 hands of 10NL and 600 hand of 25NL. I made more money at 10NL then 25 though, haha

Bankroll: $311.50