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Message: [QUOTE="John A, post: 4016941, member: 88730"] I'm not saying this particular villain is passive. I'm saying when facing a passive villain, it's better to just bet, since you're ahead of their range and checking only gives them a chance to improve (even if it's a small chance). It's not going to change your ability to get value later. No, his hand sample doesn't have anything to do w/ my comment about his 3-bet calling range. What I'm saying is someone who is opening 10% vs someone who is opening 18%, their 3-bet CALLING range will not be that different (other than what I previously noted about some hand distributions). It will still be right around the 5% range. I'm making a rough distribution based on the fact I want X% of suited connectors that are reasonable that approach around a 5% calling range. We can add AQo, but then I'd take out AQs and reduce the AA percentage. I've explained in here how to build ranges in the past, maybe I need to go over this again. But look, I'll show you multiple ranges: This hand driven to you directly from DriveHUD [URL="http://drivehud.com"]Poker HUD & Database[/URL] Board: 4c Tc Ad Xx Xx Equity Win Tie Hand Range 52.6129% 51.5502% 1.0627% [ KdKs ] 47.3871% 46.3245% 1.0627% [ 88+(100), AKs(100), AQo+(100), T9s(100) ] This hand driven to you directly from DriveHUD [URL="http://drivehud.com"]Poker HUD & Database[/URL] Board: 4c Tc Ad Xx Xx Equity Win Tie Hand Range 48.1684% 47.1058% 1.0627% [ KdKs ] 51.8316% 50.7689% 1.0627% [ 88+(100), AQs+(100), AQo+(100) ] And so on... but including AA/KK 100% as a call, an no suited connectors is incorrect imho. Well, I'm pretty bad w/ hand ranges historically. So you're probably correct. So let's go w/ your ranges and talk about what lines make the most sense then. Let's take your tightest range, which I personally don't think is a realistic and representative range, but perhaps you're 100%. You have: only 33% against {AQ+,TT+}. (it's actually about 35%, but we'll say 33% regardless). So taking our example hand, what do we do? If we check and call and villain makes any bet that is slightly over a pot sized bet, we should be folding correct? What % of the time will villain be betting with worse for perceived value? He'll have no bluffs based on your range. But you should be folding correct? Of course, generally speaking, our opponent won't pot the flop. Typically they'll be betting 50-63% of the pot. But my point main point is, if he won't have any bluffs based on your range, then why even take that chance? Just bet. There are times where opponents will over shove, or do other things. Why allow that to happen? Now let's say instead we bet 35% of the pot. We just made a Nash equilib bet correct (really you should be betting around 45%)? Whether our opponent calls or folds, it doesn't matter. But now we set the price. If our opponent raises, we fold. I don't bet this amount, but I bet a similar small amount in 3-bet pots for precisely this reason (and because in a spot like this I know we have more equity than this). I can bet a wider range and include more bluffs. Anytime you're the aggressor in a spot like this, you allow your opponent to make more mistakes. When they fold out 88-TT in this spot, vs my bluffs, that's a huge amount of long term EV I switched to my side. Lastly when I do have a big hand I can setup bets vs. bad players that they tend not to fold to. If I bet say 44%, then 42% and then I'll have just under a half sized pot bet typically on the river, so I can goad bad players into 3 streets of value. I don't do this vs. decent regs of course. So say our opponent calls our flop bet, if we check the turn, they will likely check behind w/ their whole range. Board texture and turn card play a big role here, but that's the likely scenario. So we're in check down mode expecting that our opponent might turn some hands into bluffs on the river. This is probably a separate discussion on the river spot, but I think you get the general point here (I hope). In one scenario, you potentially priced yourself out, in the second, you made an ideal bet and controlled the pot. So now let's say you check and your opponent checks. If they check in this spot, it's likely because they have a smaller pair and you just gave them free equity for no reason. You bet the turn, and they are likely calling. Are you betting the river? What changed and why? [/QUOTE]

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