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[QUOTE="JackleOfCrackle, post: 4948157, member: 289939"]
I mostly agree with this but I don't really like flatting pre at all. Sets us up for a difficult hand with jacks never really knowing if we are way ahead or way behind especially on run outs like this. 
Just to play devils advocate and spark conversation. If we are folding jacks on this river why did we call the turn? Just praying he gives up? Against this villain I think we really need to make a decision on the turn if we are calling him down all the way unless maybe an overcard comes and he keeps barreling. Or we even consider turning them into a bluff with a small raise forcing his Ak/AQ and draw type hands to fold and take the pot down (on the turn-not saying this is great but it's a plan). Obv folding if he jams and shows he wants to play for stacks. 
But calling turn to fold to a brick river seems like a we are calling in hope we aren't facing a river bet which IMO we are a lot of the time. The river changed nothing at all and is probably the best river our little ol jacks can hope for. 
I don't mind the fold but I find it hard to know why we are calling turn if we aren't willing to take our hand down on a run out like this. Agreed though his bet sizing looks like pure value IMO and a call kind of sucks. I just think he can have a ton of draws that he missed and is forced into triple barreling as his only way of taking the pot.
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